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  2. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    I do recall reading that now that you point it out, and I think that is where I am getting my reading of RONR. Specifically in that article, the example of how the CoW can discuss the issue without a pending main motion is of the form that "to investigate the possibility of creating a scholarship...", in other words, in the form provided in that article, the Committee of the Whole must be directed at some potential activity of the assembly as a whole, not just a general discussion about a topic. Case 1: a standing committee with standing powers to create and effect policies of type A creates such a policy. Said policy is reported to the assembly. An assembly member wants to discuss the policy, likely because she is unhappy with it, wish to express said dissatisfaction, and wants to see if others in the assembly are also dissatisfied with it. Case 2: a standing committee with standing powers to make policy recommendations of type B to the assembly reports to the assembly on the progress of a draft of such a policy (it is unknown whether this question originated in committee or was referred to it). The reporting member wishes to have a format like a hearing, wherein feedback is sought but not in the formal way of a CoW report, as the committee does not want to risk the assembly, at that stage in the drafting, to take ownership of the draft.
  3. Whatever else would you expect?
  4. Filling Vacancies with Alternate

    Hello, I am chairing the Platform Committee for a political organization which allows for appointment by state of members and ranked alternates. The pertinent Bylaws are as follows: ********************************************* ARTICLE 11: OTHER COMMITTEES 1. There shall be a Platform Committee, a Bylaws and Rules Committee and a Credentials Committee for each Regular Convention. The National Committee shall appoint a temporary chair of each committee to serve until each committee selects its own chair. 2. The Bylaws and Rules Committee shall consist of ten Party members appointed by the National Committee no later than three months before a Regular Convention. No more than five of these members shall be members of the current National Committee. 3. The Platform Committee shall consist of 20 members selected as follows: a. One member by each of the five affiliate parties having the greatest per capita sustaining membership as determined for Convention delegate allocations at the most recent Regular Convention. b. One member by each of the ten affiliate parties having the largest sustaining memberships, excluding those affiliates from (a), as determined for Convention delegate allocations at the most recent Regular Convention. c. Five members selected by the National Committee. d. These members shall be selected no later than the last day of the fifth month prior to the Regular Convention. 4. The Credentials Committee, composed of ten members, shall be selected as follows. a. Five members chosen by the National Committee no later than six months before a Regular Convention. b. One member by each of the five affiliate parties having the largest sustaining memberships as determined for Convention delegate allocations at the most recent Regular Convention. These shall be selected by each of the affiliate parties no later than one month prior to the Regular Convention. 5. Ranked alternates may be named by the appointing bodies to fill any vacancies or absences in the Convention Committees. ************************************* The situation is, let's just say CO, appointed its representative and its alternate. The representative resigned prior to the appointment deadline and thus the alternate moved up into that spot. Now - after the appointment deadline - CO wishes to appoint a new alternate. The questions that arise: Must all alternates be designated prior to the appointment deadline mentioned in 3d? Is the lack of an alternate a "vacancy" to be filed when an alternate is not part of the committee as defined in 3? If an alternate is not part of the committee in 3, does any of the above matter and can then alternates be appointed at any time?
  5. Our club held elections for officers this year and provided members an opportunity to vote electronically and in person at the annual membership meeting. On the email and paper ballots for election of officers there were three (3) positions for Director at Large vacant with only two candidates on the ballot. The ballot clearly stated "3 positions available" even though two candidates names were on the ballot. The ballots, both email and paper, did not provide any space or line to write in a vote for any other person. Several email ballots were returned with a write in vote for a member eligible to hold office but not listed as a candidate on the ballot. Several paper ballots were submitted during the voting at the annual membership meeting with the same write in candidate clearly marked on the ballot. The teller committee initially did not report the write in candidate and was challenged by the member whose name had been written in. After a brief recess the tellers committee reported that in fact several email and paper ballots contained a single name as a write in candidate. Several people objected because the ballots, both email and paper, did not contain any reference to write in candidates. The presiding officer at the annual membership meeting where in vote was taken refused to certify the ballot, choosing to ignore the point of order that write in voting is allowed so long as the bylaws do not contain any prohibition. The meeting was adjourned without certifying the vote and the presiding officer pronounced that the board would convene to make the final decision at a special board meeting. Questions: 1. Since there were three positions noted on the ballot and only two candidates listed, should the write in candidate be elected to the third position? 2. Does the failure to provide any reference to the ability to write in a candidate or the lack of a line for writing in a candidate create an invalid ballot that can be rejected? 3. Since the annual membership meeting was adjourned without resolving the conflict, what is the appropriate way to certify the vote? A facsimile of the ballot and excerpt from the bylaws on elections are attached. Ballot As Mailed to Members.doc Bylaws Section Regarding Elections.doc
  6. It may not be possible to wait for a regular meeting. There can be situations where they wish to remove the person before more damage can be done (from their viewpoint). It would depend on the exact wording of the bylaws. I would note that failure to call a meeting when required could be a subject of disciplinary action in itself. Someone could test this by raising a point of order, either at that meeting or a subsequent one. The person testing it by raising a point of order, could actually believe that the meeting was legitimately called but could want to establish a precedent (for what it is worth).
  7. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    Good catch. Yes, the motion to Commit may be made as a main motion when no motion is pending, and depending on the circumstances, it may be an original main motion or an incidental main motion.
  8. HOA Executive Session

    They aren’t, unless the assembly chooses to do so, in which event they may make it public in whatever manner they see fit. As J. J. suggests, some decisions are difficult to keep secret as a practical matter. Since you say this is an HOA, there may also be applicable laws on this subject, which will take precedence over RONR.
  9. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    In some cases, the motion to Commit is an original main motion (p. 168, ll. 32-5). In some of the cases described, it would be an original main motion.
  10. J. J., I agree with you. Since anyone can request anything without a rule in the bylaws saying so, it seems to me that the “request” rule in the bylaws means something more than that. It would seem to me, however, that if there is any ambiguity regarding whether such a meeting would be proper, it would be prudent to handle this at a regular meeting instead, especially considering the business the board intends to conduct.
  11. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    An article describing this process was published in National Parliamentarian, Summer 2017, "The Whole Consideration," pp. 19-22. It is on line here: https://issuu.com/parliamentarians/docs/nap_np_78-4-www
  12. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    1.) Yes. 2.) Yes. 3.) Yes. 1. I do not think it is necessary to suspend the rules. The motion to Commit may be adopted as an incidental main motion when no motion is pending. 2. I disagree. Committee of the Whole is a true committee in every sense of the word. If a special committee may be appointed to study a subject (which it most certainly can), then the same may be done for Committee of the Whole. This depends on the assembly’s Rules, but generally, it is correct that motions are not in order during Good of the Order (except, in some assemblies, motions relating to discipline). It seems to me, however, that the assembly could suspend the rules for this purpose. Motions are only in order at the appropriate time in the order of business. Most assemblies do not permit motions during Good of the Order - although we do not know for certain what is the rule in the OP’s society. I think it is perfectly appropriate for a Committee of the Whole to discuss the subject it has been appointed to discuss. I think it is correct to say that Committee of the Whole is more limited in this respect than other committees. A Committee of the Whole cannot just start talking about whatever it wants. Yes, but does not that text also suggest to you that those organizations do not permit motions during Good of the Order except motions relating to formal disciplinary procedures? If your organization permits motions to be made during Good of the Order, however, so be it. I’d also note that Good of the Order is generally supposed to be limited to members making brief observations and announcements and is not intended to turn into full-scale discussion, but again, your organization may do it differently. With all that technical stuff out of the way - what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Even if it turns out Committee of the Whole is not the appropriate tool, I’m sure we can come up with something else.
  13. HOA Executive Session

    The body could vote to release it. In some cases, it will become clear. If the group votes to dig a swimming pool, people will realize it after they see a hole filled with water.
  14. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    So long as there is quorum, I don't think RONR prohibits this, especially given "the practice of some organizations would place motions or resolutions relating to formal disciplinary procedures...at this point [GOTO]" (p. 362, II. 14-19).
  15. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    "Committee of the whole is under the rules of the assembly" except that the only motions adopt (in the report), amend (items in the report), rise and report, and a few incidental motions. (p. 533) are allowed, and it "enables the full assembly to give detailed consideration to a matter under freedom approximating those of a committee" (p. 529, III, 34-35, emphasis added), by removing only the limit of debate of number of times (p. 529-530, III. 35 - I. 5). I guess the question on which much of this pivots is whether or not the characteristic activity of a committee that "informal discussion of a subject is permitted while no motion is pending" (p. 488) is also allowed in Committee of the Whole, and given what I cited above, and that there are other characteristics of a committee that I understand to be not allowed in CoW, e.g., motions not needing to be seconded (ibid.), I am yet to be convinced that the characteristic activity of informal discussion while no motion is pending is allowed in CoW.
  16. Membership

    I don’t think it’s quite the same thing. If only the expiration dates are missing, the society has a record of those who were a member of the society at the time the roster was last updated, but it does not know which members’ rights have expired since then (if indeed the bylaws provide as much). If there was no roster at all, there would be no record at all of who is a member of the society. Just to be clear, my understanding is that the file itself has not been deleted. It would appear that a single column in the file, which contains the expiration dates, was deleted, and the file was saved in this new form. It is still conceivably possible that an earlier version of the file could be recovered, although there is no guarantee that this can be done.
  17. HOA Executive Session

    How are decisions made in Executive Session made public
  18. Email vs regular mail

    Doesn't look like it.
  19. I think that the president is required to call a meeting at a request. If the President should fail to do that, then either the vice President or the Secretary should call the meeting. That is my opinion in the matter, provided that president clearly violated the bylaws. At worst, a member could "test" the validity of such action by raising a point of order.
  20. re: that is, it requires (a) previous notice as described above and a two-thirds vote or (b) a vote of a majority of the entire membership. " RONR 11th ed., p. 307? In an assembly that has 11 voting members, a 2/3 vote (all being there and voting) is 8, a majority of entire membership = 7. Does this mean that 7 is the vote needed to amend a by-law and that previous notice is not needed?........Are there limitations, as per Roberts, as to when a majority of entire membership can be used? Can a voting body of 11 amend a by-law without notice providing they use a vote of 6 Thanks for the clarity. Fortunately we have an item that describes what is necessary for a by-law amendment. Roberts is the authority for many organisations. Good advice would be for groups to choose one or the other and specify in their procedural by-laws. Appreciated, Paul
  21. Email vs regular mail

    Can revisions to by laws be sent via email when by laws call for it to be sent by regular mail
  22. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    If the meeting has not adjourned then I suppose the assembly can still move and consider any main motion it desires. Am I wrong about this? Yes, for some reason I had forgotten about that. Thank you for reminding me. You go, dude!
  23. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    As I understand it, GOTO cannot result in a motion, at least not for the current meeting. The motion to Commit or Refer can also be a main motion, which it would be in the situation described here. (p. 168, lines 29-35). I'll start the waxing process :-) One example where I've seen it work very well is a national medical association where they wanted to have free discussion to explore multiple facets of a subject. It worked very well for them and they have continued to use it.
  24. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    Perhaps I should clarify my statement "without a formal main motion." It should be clear that there is a motion to go into either a Committee of the Whole (or one of the other two forms) but that there is no formal main motion referred to the committee but only a subject is being referred. In the mean time, I have reviewed the section on the three forms of this motion and so far I can detect no reason why a subject-only cannot be referred to these committees as suggested by Mr. Kapur.
  25. Uses of Committee of the Whole

    The "Good Of The Order" is I think the perfect place. There is space to discuss things among the entire group and elaborate a motion to that effect. I never have actually ever thought of the possibility of the assembly referring just a subject without a motion attached to a Committee of the Whole. I suppose there is no reason why a Committee of the Whole cannot recommend or not any particular course of action and the assembly can do whatever it wants with that report whether there was a main motion or not, or whether the report suggests the assembly adopt a main motion or not. Because the motion to go into the Committee of the Whole is a form of the motion to Refer, and is a subsidiary motion to the main motion, I just never considered the possibility of there not existing a main motion to go along with it. I will accept your reasoning under advisement and invite others to wax on whether they see any problems with convening the Committee of the Whole without a formal main motion.
  26. Do your bylaws contain some provision that a single member can bring charges? If not, then a single member is not bringing charges, and you can freely ignore him. RONR's procedures require a vote by the assembly to bring charges. But RONR's rules do not apply if your bylaws contain specialized rules that would supersede those in RRONR. A complete description of RONR's discipline process is contained in Chapter XX (20) in RONR.
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