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Daniel H. Honemann

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Everything posted by Daniel H. Honemann

  1. Special Election

    First of all, you say that: "One of our Directors resigned, with 2 years remaining of his term. The position was filled by the Alternate Director." This may not be the case, since your bylaws say that the Alternate Director is to "attend meetings of the parent organization ... as a temporary Director if a Director resigns." It's not clear, from looking solely at what you have posted, that the Alternate Director is to perform any of the other duties of the Director who resigned until such time as the vacancy is filled by the Regional Council. In any event, it does seem clear that your bylaws have not been followed, since they mandate that the existing vacancy "shall be filled through temporary appointment by the Regional Council; and the person temporarily appointed shall hold office until the next Annual Meeting, at which time such vacancy shall be filled by election for the unexpired portion of said term." This isn't just the fault of your VP. It is the responsibility of all of your members to see to it that the bylaws are complied with, and to raise points of order when they are not. You ought not need a specific article in Robert's Rules of Order to understand that rules set forth in your bylaws are to be followed.
  2. Reconsideration of a Point of Order

    I'll see what I can do.
  3. Roberts Rules versus Org Bylaws

    Maybe because if a motion has already been adopted adopting RONR as the parliamentary authority, a motion to adopt RONR as the parliamentary authority will not be in order.
  4. Church Council election

    Well, failure to elect doesn't necessarily result in a vacancy, but if the bylaws use the unqualified wording "for a term of ... year(s)" in fixing the length of terms in office, as described at the top of page 574, and at the end of that time no one has been elected to fill an office, there will certainly be a resultant vacancy in that office. I agree, however, that whether or not a vacancy caused by the failure to elect in such instances is one which the council is authorized to fill depends upon exactly what the bylaws say in this regard.
  5. Reconsideration of a Point of Order

    I still haven't found any specific statement in RONR about this (after another five minute search), and I still think the answer is clearly yes, the assembly's decision on a point of order can be reconsidered.
  6. Motion conflicts with previously adopted motion

    The quotation you have taken from page 343 is, in its first sentence, simply a restatement of the rule found on page111, lines 23-26, which tells us that "Apart from a motion to Rescind or to Amend Something Previously Adopted (35), no main motion is in order that conflicts with a motion previously adopted at any time and still in force." and then, in its second, a restatement of the rule found in (b) on page 251, lines 11-15, which tells us that such a motion, if adopted, is null and void unless it "was adopted by the vote required to rescind or amend the previously adopted motion".* These rules, as George has noted, are referring to motions which are not in order when made for the reason stated. RONR Off. Interp. 2006-18, on the other hand, is not at all concerned with such a motion. It is, instead, concerned with a situation in which a motion, entirely in order when made and requiring (as a consequence of its amendment) a two-thirds vote for its adoption, is declared to have been adopted by something less than a two-thirds vote. ---------------------------------------------------- * It may be of interest to recall that, prior to the 10th Edition, conflicting motions of this kind, if declared to have been adopted, were null and void no matter what.
  7. by laws vs other documents and process used

    Apparently, one of the bylaw requirements for admission to membership is that a candidate must have "shown an active interest in promoting the goals and objectives of the club". I suppose this may provide some wiggle room for the adoption of rules concerning what one must do in order to demonstrate sufficient interest to meet this requirement.
  8. Amending Minutes

    I hope you're just kidding. And I still hope you're just kidding.

    Throw the first one away, keep in mind that the second is a copy of an edition which is 100 years old (there have been quite a few changes in the rules since then), and use the third one when you need to, but understand that there is no substitute for the real thing.
  10. Under Oath

    As noted, since no oaths are required by anything in Robert's Rules of Order, there are no rules in Robert's Rules of Order for handling them.
  11. Church Council election

    As I previously indicated, more details are needed in order to determine what, procedurally, should be done next in order to fill this position. The election doesn't need to be "reopened", but it should be completed if possible, and there may or may not be a vacancy which can and should be filled either permanently or until such time as the election is completed, assuming it can be. All of this depends upon exactly what your bylaws say about a number of things, such as terms in office and frequency of membership meetings.
  12. Immediate Need to Amend Bylaws

    As noted, without the requisite prior notice, adoption of the proposed bylaw amendment will require the vote of a majority of the entire membership of the body having the authority to amend the bylaws. A two-thirds vote that is not a majority of the entire membership won't do it.
  13. Church Council election

    Well, we don't have all the relevant details, but it appears as if your nomination of yourself for the open position on the stewardship board was treated as if it were a motion that you be elected to this position. This motion was then voted on by ballot, and was soundly defeated. Although it may have been improper to conduct the vote as they did, I'm afraid it's too late now to try to do anything about that. It appears that what your church has now is an incomplete election for this position, and perhaps also a resultant vacancy on the stewardship board. More details are needed in order to determine what, procedurally, should be done next in order to fill this position, but you need to decide for yourself whether or not you, personally, should let it go.
  14. Actually, proposing an amendment along these lines may well be a good idea for more than one reason, and not at all comparable to using an elephant gun to kill a fly.
  15. Well, it's certainly not prohibited by Robert's Rules. The first of these two resolutions appears to be one which will be moved on behalf of the board, and the second is one which will be moved by a member on his own behalf, and not on behalf of the board.
  16. Absentee ballot voters counted in quorum

    Only if your bylaws or applicable law say so.
  17. Your Senate's bylaws very clearly state that, of a total of eleven elected members of its Agenda Committee, seven shall be chosen from the faculty and staff, and one from the ex officio members of the Senate, and that no more than four of these eight members may be from one college or school. This Committee, which you say is the Executive Committee of the Senate, acts as a nominating committee in submitting nominations for election to itself, and, I gather, also prepares the ballot used for a vote by mail. There can be no doubt but that it is the duty of every member of this committee, and especially its chairman, to be fully familiar with the bylaws of the Senate, and especially the bylaw provisions which set forth the eligibility requirements for election to membership on the Agenda Committee. Nevertheless, at the time when this committee decided who it would nominate for election to itself, it apparently nominated at least two persons who were clearly ineligible for election, and then these persons were declared to have been elected. Since you are now serving as parliamentarian, and if the rules in Robert's Rules of Order are controlling in this connection, I suggest you read what is said on pages 444-446 in RONR (11th ed.) very carefully. By the way, I hope your Senate is aware of the fact that Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised tells us that it is a fundamental principle of parliamentary law that the right to vote is limited to the members of an organization who are actually present when a vote is taken, and that exceptions to this rule must be expressly stated in the bylaws, including any exception allowing for voting by mail. In other words, absentee voting, which includes voting by mail, is strictly prohibited unless some provision in the bylaws specifically permits it.
  18. rescinding a person's membership for cause

    Usually its a "not" hole, but this time its a "n't" hole.
  19. Elected Committee members and continuity of service

    Well of course you won't see this issue addressed in RONR. It's generated solely by your own bylaw provisions and questions as to how to handle such things as sabbaticals and research leaves. In any event, when a determination has to be made in response to a properly raised point of order, the chair can rule on it, an appeal can be taken from that ruling, and the assembly will decide.
  20. I don't see how this can be blamed on one person, since apparently no one at all paid any attention to what was happening. How are these elections held? Are they held during a meeting? Are the results of the election announced at a meeting?
  21. Mr. Carter, I wonder if you could let us know what procedure, if any, has been established or employed in the past to either (a) prevent too many members from a single school or college from being elected to the Agenda Committee, or (b) immediately cope with the problem if too many are apparently the winners of an election. It seems to me that, when this provision was placed in your bylaws, some procedure should have been established to prevent this sort of thing from happening.
  22. Veto?

    Good candidate for our Understatement of the Year Award.
  23. Acclamation by 2/3 majority voice vote

    Well, "acclamation" isn't the right word to use for it, but a motion can be made to suspend the rules and agree to (whatever), as described on page 262, lines 6-8, of RONR (11th ed.), and so I suppose a motion could be made to suspend the rules and agree to the inclusion of (list of names) as voting members of the (whatever the name of this governing body is). A rising vote, however, is the normal method of voting on motions requiring a two-thirds vote for their adoption.
  24. Okay, quick draw McGraw. As you can see, I determined, shortly after I posted what you have quoted, that I should let Mr. Martin respond for himself, and so I deleted it. But anyway, I agree with you.