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  • RONR Message Board – Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised
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  1. There are some actions which, upon a timely Point of Order, will turn: (a.) an adopted motion; into (b.) a null-and-void motion. *** There are at least three kinds of behavior which will trigger the above change: (1.) Previous notice was insufficient. -- A member(s) was/were not mailed the notice. (2.) A member(s) was/were not allowed to attend a meeting. (3.) A member(s) was/were not allowed to vote at a meeting. *** Of the above listed behaviors, there is a circumstance where (a.) the adopted motion will stand. (b.) the adopted motion will be rendered null and void. *** Given a timely Point of Order: Q. Which of the behaviors have a circumstance where the adopted motion will stand? Q. Which of the behaviors will always render an adopted motion as null and void? *** The reader may wish to review some key pages in RONR: (1.) page 252, "Remedy for violation of the right to vote". (2.) page 445, the paragraph which begins, "Otherwise, an election may be contested by . . ." and its bullet items. ***
  2. On page 45, it is explained the chair must always call for the negative vote, no matter how nearly unanimous the affirmative vote may appear. However, later it says that "a further exception arises when the negative vote is intrinsically, irrelevant, as for example, when "a vote of one fifth of those present"". Don't these two statements contradict each other. What would constitute intrinsically irrelevant? And doesn't the first statement establish that the negative vote should be called no matter how clear a margin of victory?
  3. I am a member of a college senate, which meets on the first Monday of each month during the academic year. At our March meeting, a member was absent and did not send a proxy on a specific motion, which failed for the lack of one vote, as announced. The April meeting was held and this motion was not renewed. The member has now located the "late vote with the permission of the assembly" language in ROR 4th (quoted below and referred to on our website), and wants to know if she can ask the May meeting for unanimous consent to cast her vote, which would be in favor of the motion, thereby changing the outcome of the March meeting vote. The specific language she quotes is: "A member has the right to change his vote up to the time the vote is finally announced. After that, he can make the change only by permission of the assembly, which may be given by general consent; that is, by no member's objecting when the chair inquires if any one objects. If objection is made, a motion may be made to grant the permission, which motion is undebatable." I am trying to line up the specific issues I see with this request, and your input would be appreciated. 1) An absent member does not cast a vote, and therefore cannot be said to "change his vote," therefore this section would not apply at all. 2) The adjournment of a regularly scheduled monthly meeting concludes all business acted upon at the session, so the March motion was completed at that time (is there a better way of phrasing this?) and cannot be reopened for a late vote at a later session. Any other issues that I should bring up? There is a reluctance in practice in our assembly to put an identical motion back on a subsequent agenda and simply revote without any change in the wording of the motion or its underlying facts, simply because people did not like the outcome, although this is not stated in our bylaws. As I understand it, as our assembly meetings are regularly scheduled, each monthly meeting is its own session. As a practical matter, therefore, I did not see anything in the rules that would prevent the identical motion being moved at a later session. My tentative suggestion therefore would be to ask her to ask the same motion at the May meeting and vote again. Would you suggest different advice?
  4. So tonight we are voting on a bylaw change that was sent to the voting body last week. When the meeting starts do we need a motion to vote or can we simply go right into the vote? I envision it being like this: "There is a proposal to (insert proposed bylaw), we will open the floor for discussion" "Seeing no more discussion (or seeing none), I will entertain a motion to vote" Motioned and seconded "all those in favor, please raise your hand" "all those opposed" "announce outcome" Is this right?
  5. Mrs

    My HOA sent out a vote to change the convenants. 75% of voters is needed to pass. A deadline of Oct 20,2016 was set to have the vote completed. Five months later we are informed that they are still trying to get people to return their ballots. Can you extend the vote 5 months until you get the result you want? What would Roberts Rules do?
  6. voting

    Our association has board members who live all over the country. Those who live close enough to the organization's office attend the monthly meetings in person, and those who live too far away to attend in person call in and attend meetings via conference call monthly. (This is in our bylaws as an approved method of attendance.) At the most recent meeting, the new president had all board members on the phone and present in person participate in roll call voting. All board members voted. He is now requiring that any board member who voted on the phone must now mail in their votes for their votes to count because they were not physically present at the meeting. I cannot find anywhere why this would need to be done, and I would think that this would now mean that they did not have quorum at their meeting if they are having to send their votes in by mail. Any help would be appreciated as we are trying to get this resolved.
  7. Are there provisions in place for the Board to conduct business requiring a vote by the members via electronic mail methods.
  8. Our current President, during our Unit meeting, slid a piece of paper to her second vice requesting that she read the page. On the page was our President's formal request for our Unit to "endorse" her for Department. She asked, verbally for support, a few said yes, many stayed quiet not supporting her but also not wanting to say no. As President should she not have excused herself from the room, or better requested secret ballot? Several officers were absent from the meeting and would like to know if it is possible to get the "endorsement" overturned.
  9. How long do you have to reconsider a topic or issue that has been voted on.
  10. How long do you have to reconsider a topic or issue that has been voted on.
  11. Is there a rule when a board member does not declare a conflict of interest? Does not vote on motion put forward, post vote states member was not in favour of it passing and now wants roll call vote when there may have been a possible conflict? Does a new vote need to take place even though the original motion was passed and carried?
  12. Our organisation Constitution is silent on how votes can be taken at a AGM other than voting members must be present. Normal practice has been that votes are by show of hands. On one specific motion at upcoming AGM it has been requested by the proposer that the vote be done by secret ballot. (other motions at the meeting will be by the normal practice) is it in order to agree in advance that the vote will be by secret ballot, or can the chair refuse , or should the meeting vote on the method of voting if it is proposed and seconded by members Your guidance would be appreciated as always
  13. If an election was held by ballot, and certain members voted that were ineligible to vote, and the ballots were destroyed after the election, on what basis can the election be considere null and void? I found this on the dummies website, but can't find the supporting language in the actual rules.. "Votes cast by illegal voters must not be counted at all, not even included in the number of total votes cast. If it’s determined that enough illegal votes were cast by illegal voters to affect the result, and these votes can’t be identified and removed from the count, then the vote is deemed null and must be retaken." where is this rule?
  14. At a meeting last night which consisted of members as well as non-member and non-voting advisors, we elected new officers. Nominations were asked from the group and received. For each nomination, a motion of support was asked followed by asking for a second. The new officers were elected. The next day, the person drafting the minutes realized that an individual who was not a member (instead classified as an advisor) of our group had voiced a motion of support for the lone candidate for Chair. An actual member then voiced as seconding that motion. When we elected Vice Chair, the same non-member voiced a second in support for this lone candidate's nomination after a legitimate member voiced first motion of support. So, an actual member did have say at some point in the nomination proceedings. This was a complete accident on the non-member's behalf, and on our behalf for not recognizing his "illegal" motion at the time. I am very new to Robert's Rules of Order and formal meetings. From what I have gathered, it appears there is not a need for a "second" for nominations for an office position. So perhaps there is no issue with the Vice-Chair position, if I am reading this correctly. However, the non-member was the first to support the nomination for Chair. What must we do to officially address this situation? Should a new election or nomination process be held at our next meeting? Is our process okay since a legitimate member did voice support for each nomination? Appreciate any advice anyone can provide to me on the matter.
  15. The executive committee of our organization held a trial for a member and decided to suspend his membership for up to one year. Under the CBL the member has the right to appeal to the full membership by special meeting. A special meeting is scheduled and according to the CBL it will take 2/3 vote of members in good standing to overturn the decision of the Executive Committee. My question is do the members of the Executive committee get to vote again at the special meeting for the purpose of overturning their decision?
  16. At a meeting a motion was made to accept an application for membership and was properly seconded. The chair counted votes by raising of hands. I sat in the front of the meeting and did not turn around to count myself; hadn't ever thought it necessary. But the chair banged the gavel pretty quickly, announcing the motion carried. Afterward many members disputed the count, and the general consensus is that more "opposed" votes were placed than "in favor" votes. The meeting adjourned without any argument from the body; I began hearing complaints immediately after the meeting. That particular motion is a done deal. But questions quickly circulated concerning the chair's lack of a pause, during which a call for division may have been made ahead of the gavel, and if there were any options to dispute the chair's decision after the gavel fell. Since approving membership was practically immediate, I see no way to rescind. Virtually none of us are well educated on the rules, though I've begun reading up. I've yet to find a definitive answer on this and hope someone here might have some insight for us. Thank you.
  17. Hello, I am confused and do not know where to find the rules or if it is even in the rules. I am currently the vice president of my student government association and the president is not allowed to vote unless it's a tied. Since the president of my association will not be able to attend a few meetings and leaves me to be the chair/facilitator do i lose my voting rights?
  18. Our secretary mailed ballots to all members for the upcoming election. Our bylaws only allow absentee ballots if requested by a member. He also required ballots to be returned before the election meeting. Our bylaws state that the voting must be done at the meeting. Does his actions invalidate the election?
  19. We have 24 members in our group. Our Treasurer developed a budget that was endorsed by Executive Committee. In the absence of Treasurer, the Deputy Treasurer presented budget that was unanimously accepted by those present. We had 11 present. The next day, our secretary noted that we didn't have a quorum, so vote didn't count. That we would need to redo the vote at the next meeting if a quorum present. There is no controversy, and I fully expect it to be adopted unanimously again by those present at the next meeting. Is it necessary to vote again a month later? We had a second question for discussion. It concerned eliminating a project. The 11 present unanimously agreed to drop the project. Again, no controversy, and no real support to continue project. Is it necessary to redo the vote the next month. I believe 13 present would be required to have a forum.
  20. Is an organization (specifically, a church) that follows Roberts required to permit discussion before a vote to elect a minister? Or is it permitted to have a candidate preach and then have a secret ballot, without discussion, to approve him? There is nothing in this church's constitution that expressly allows or forbids the practice. Would past unchallenged precedents be sufficient grounds for permitting the practice if it is not usually allowed by Roberts? I ask because I am new to the church and I realize that organizations sometimes violate Roberts without realizing it, and I am one of those people who likes to get procedures right, just in case. NTG
  21. Can an individual hold more than one office on a board. For example president and secretary?
  22. are board members on leave allowed to vote in elections of officers?
  23. We have an upcoming called meeting where the primary motion to be considered is of such a nature that some would like it to require a 2/3 majority of those present to pass. I'd like to know what procedures in RONR such a preliminary motion would fall under. Would this be a suspension of rules? This seems an application of suspension. The other potentially applicable procedure would be amending by-laws but that will be out of order due to notice requirements. Thanks in advance
  24. I have a question. We have an advisory board meeting for 4-H shooting sports. a discussion was brought up about membership dues and fees at a shooting range. All of the board was present. A motion was made to keep the dues the same and make the advanced shooters pay their dues at the shooting range. It was 2nd, voted on and passed with 100% voting for it. later on the meeting was adjourned. Now some of the members want to change the rule that was voted on even though it was voted on and passed. Can this be done in a special meeting? It comes down to that some of the members were scared to voice their opinion and voted with the group, now those members want to speak up. I am not 100% familiar with RROO but trying to learn more as I go
  25. What is the proper procedure in an election of officers; such as how the incumbent individuals and new prospective officers are listed on the ballot? The Notice to all owners regarding the election of officers? In a recent election in my community there appears to be a misunderstanding of the process. Example: notice states you are entitled to one vote as a unit owner but further states there are three seats open for vote.