Limiting debate in committee

[Sean Hunt]

A committee cannot limit debate in its meetings, and must ask its parent assembly for permission to do so. However, is a motion to report a request limiting debate itself debateable? I see nothing specifically indicating this, except of course for common sense.

Alternatively, can the committee use an alternate means to limit debate? Can the rule be suspended to allow introduction of a motion to limit debate? Can the rules be suspended to make a normally-debateable motion undebateable upon its introduction?

[Bruce Lages]

I would interpret the statement in RONR that "A committee may not adopt its own rules except as authorized in the rules of the society or in instructions given to the committee by its parent assembly in a particular case." (p. 500. l.25 - p. 501, l. 1) to mean that a motion to suspend the rules would not be in order in a committee.

[George Mervosh]

A committee cannot limit debate in its meetings, and must ask its parent assembly for permission to do so. However, is a motion to report a request limiting debate itself debateable? I see nothing specifically indicating this, except of course for common sense.

Moving to report what is agreed to is a main motion, so it would be debatable.

I would interpret the statement in RONR that "A committee may not adopt its own rules except as authorized in the rules of the society or in instructions given to the committee by its parent assembly in a particular case." (p. 500. l.25 - p. 501, l. 1) to mean that a motion to suspend the rules would not be in order in a committee.

The footnote on p. 500 is also telling, but since a motion to Limit Debate is, in essence, a motion to suspend the rules, it seems clear an actual motion to suspend the rules for that purpose is not proper.

[Dan Honemann]

Although rules made specifically applicable to a committee by instructions given to it by its parent organization and by rules made specifically applicable to it by the parliamentary authority adopted by its parent organization (such as those found in RONR, 11th ed., p. 500, lines 9-21) may not be suspended by it, I see no other impediment to the use of motions to Suspend the Rules during meetings of a committee.

[Rev Ed]

The Committee could make a motion to report its request to have the parent group (either the Board or the general membership) to grant a limit to debate. But this motion would be debatable so there is no way to limit debate on it.

And the most likely form of limiting debate for a Committee that I know of is in the instruction for a Committee to report back within a specific time frame (i.e. "The Committee shall make its report within six months") or by a specific date (i.e. "The Committee shall make a report at the April meeting.") However, other limits can be created if necessary or desired.

[Burke Balch]

The Committee could make a motion to report its request to have the parent group (either the Board or the general membership) to grant a limit to debate. But this motion would be debatable so there is no way to limit debate on it.

Not so. The footnote added in the 11th Edition, found on page 500, states:

"*If a member abuses his privilege of speaking an unlimited number of times in debate in order to obstruct the business of the committee, such dilatory behavior should be reported to the committee's parent, which may then remove that member from the committee, adopt an order limiting or closing debate in the committee, or take such other action as it deems advisable. However, if there will be no opportunity for this to occur within the time needed to effectively resolve the problem, it is the duty of the committee chairman to deny such a member any further recognition to speak in debate on the pending question."

If a motion were made in committee to apply to the committee's parent to "adopt an order limiting or closing debate in the committee," it is true that the motion would itself be debatable. However, its adoption could not be prevented by an indefinite filibuster, because if one or more of the committee minority attempted one, the committee chairman could deny such a member or members "any further recognition to speak in debate on the pending question." Since the ten-minute limit on any one speech applies in committee as in the assembly (the applicable "small board rules" remove the standard limit on the number of times a committee member may speak, not the limit on the amount of time permitted for each speech -- see p. 488, ll. 2-3), denial of "further" recognition to speak would limit the amount of time the obstructive member or members could delay adoption of the motion through debate.

[Dan Honemann]

Not so. The footnote added in the 11th Edition, found on page 500, states:

"*If a member abuses his privilege of speaking an unlimited number of times in debate in order to obstruct the business of the committee, such dilatory behavior should be reported to the committee's parent, which may then remove that member from the committee, adopt an order limiting or closing debate in the committee, or take such other action as it deems advisable. However, if there will be no opportunity for this to occur within the time needed to effectively resolve the problem, it is the duty of the committee chairman to deny such a member any further recognition to speak in debate on the pending question."

If a motion were made in committee to apply to the committee's parent to "adopt an order limiting or closing debate in the committee," it is true that the motion would itself be debatable. However, its adoption could not be prevented by an indefinite filibuster, because if one or more of the committee minority attempted one, the committee chairman could deny such a member or members "any further recognition to speak in debate on the pending question." Since the ten-minute limit on any one speech applies in committee as in the assembly (the applicable "small board rules" remove the standard limit on the number of times a committee member may speak, not the limit on the amount of time permitted for each speech -- see p. 488, ll. 2-3), denial of "further" recognition to speak would limit the amount of time the obstructive member or members could delay adoption of the motion through debate.

I agree.

Suppose a member moves to suspend the rules and agree to report to the committee's parent assembly the committee's request that motions to Limit or Extend Limits of Debate and for the Previous Question be permitted during its deliberations (or some such thing). Such a motion, if allowed, would be undebatable. I suppose Sean Hunt wants to know if there is any problem with this.

[Bruce Lages]

Why would the committee need to suspend the rules to report their request that the parent assembly allow the use of Limit or Extend the Limits of Debate or the Previous Question? Couldn't that request be made directly?

[Dan Honemann]

Why would the committee need to suspend the rules to report their request that the parent assembly allow the use of Limit or Extend the Limits of Debate or the Previous Question? Couldn't that request be made directly?

The object is to do so by a motion that is not debatable (nor amendable either, for that matter).

[Sean Hunt]

Suppose a member moves to suspend the rules and agree to report to the committee's parent assembly the committee's request that motions to Limit or Extend Limits of Debate and for the Previous Question be permitted during its deliberations (or some such thing). Such a motion, if allowed, would be undebatable. I suppose Sean Hunt wants to know if there is any problem with this.

Yes. I had forgotten about the footnote (and came back to my thread to see that it had already been mentioned), but I still think that this question is a good one.

[Dan Honemann]

Yes. I had forgotten about the footnote (and came back to my thread to see that it had already been mentioned), but I still think that this question is a good one.

Well, as I noted in post #4, I see nothing in RONR which would prevent a committee member from making a motion to suspend the rules and agree to report to the committee's parent assembly the committee's request that motions to Limit or Extend Limits of Debate and for the Previous Question be permitted during its deliberations (or some such thing).