Guest Guest Posted May 31, 2013 at 12:34 AM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 12:34 AM When a motion is made and then seconded can the chair immediatly strike the entire motion without allowing it to be debated or voted upon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 31, 2013 at 01:02 AM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 01:02 AM He can rule it out of order, but his decision is usually subject to appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted May 31, 2013 at 01:31 AM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 01:31 AM But the chair may rule it out of order only if it's out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 31, 2013 at 01:47 AM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 01:47 AM But the chair may rule it out of order only if it's out of order. And if it really is out of order, there can be no appeal. (Think about it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 31, 2013 at 05:18 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 05:18 PM And if it really is out of order, there can be no appeal. (Think about it.)i did, and that logic does not appeal to me. So maybe you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted May 31, 2013 at 06:19 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 06:19 PM And if it really is out of order, there can be no appeal. (Think about it.)I disagree. When the assembly decides an appeal, it is supposed to be deciding whether the chair's ruling was correct, not whether the assembly wants it to be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 31, 2013 at 08:54 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 08:54 PM I disagree. When the assembly decides an appeal, it is supposed to be deciding whether the chair's ruling was correct, not whether the assembly wants it to be correct. Go back and reread. If it is really out of order, there could be no question about it. It would not be possible to appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted May 31, 2013 at 09:01 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 09:01 PM Go back and reread. If it is really out of order, there could be no question about it. It would not be possible to appeal.Why? An appeal is out of order when there cannot possibly be two reasonable opinions. A reasonable opinion and a correct opinion are not necessarily the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion Posted May 31, 2013 at 09:05 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 09:05 PM Why? An appeal is out of order when there cannot possibly be two reasonable opinions. A reasonable opinion and a correct opinion are not necessarily the same thing. They always are when they are mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 31, 2013 at 10:40 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 10:40 PM Why? An appeal is out of order when there cannot possibly be two reasonable opinions. A reasonable opinion and a correct opinion are not necessarily the same thing. Ah, but a correct decision is always one for which there could not be two reasonable opinions. Not all correct decisions are like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 31, 2013 at 10:53 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 10:53 PM Ah, but a correct decision is always one for which there could not be two reasonable opinions. Not all correct decisions are like that. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted May 31, 2013 at 11:06 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 11:06 PM Huh?Before you say "Huh?" it might help to realize that J J probably meant "not all incorrect decisions." Now you can say "Huh?" :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 31, 2013 at 11:54 PM Report Share Posted May 31, 2013 at 11:54 PM Huh? Go back. "If it [the action] really is out of order, there can be no appeal." Okay a ruling that is not subject to appeal is always one where the issue has no more than one reasonable opinion to its correctness, and that ruling is also correct. If there can be more than one reasonable opinions on the issue, it follows that there exists the possibility that some other decision of the chair could be correct; in other words the ruling might not be really correct . The only time when the ruling can be said to be correct, prior to an appeal, is when there cannot be more than one reasonable opinion of if the ruling is correct. If the action is ruled out of order, and it really is out of order, there can be no appeal. The only way, at that point, you can determine if the action is really out of order, is if there cannot be more than one opinion that the action is out of order. If there is a question as to it being out of order, then, without an appeal, you could not determine if it was really out of order. Like I said, you have to think about it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted June 2, 2013 at 09:10 AM Report Share Posted June 2, 2013 at 09:10 AM O I am glad we cleared that up. But I didn't think about it. So I am trailing a long behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted June 3, 2013 at 05:32 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 at 05:32 PM Ah, but a correct decision is always one for which there could not be two reasonable opinions. Not all correct decisions are like that.They always are, but not all of them are? I have two opinions on that, and I'm just counting myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted June 3, 2013 at 05:36 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2013 at 05:36 PM So I am trailing a long behind. Trailing along behind is made even more difficult if one is trailing a long behind. "What do we know about the Beyond? Do we know what's behind the Beyond? I'm afraid some of us hardly know what's beyond the behind." -Brother Theodore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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