Move to motion and second in regular session

[Guest Guest_Vince]

Can an alderman who votes against the prevailing side in Committe of the Whole second the motion in regular session?  An issue was discussed in Committe of the Whole, and it passed 5 - 3.  When the motion to move was brought up in Regular Session, the second came from one of the alderman who was in the 3 vote.  Is that a valid second for the motion, or should that motion be considered dead for lack of a second?

[Gary c Tesser]

I'm about to go off shift but I'll say it's probably OK, at least as far as Robert's Rules is concerned. Your mentioning an alderman suggests to me that there might be government law involved, in which case RONR does not apply. If I get back in a few hours and nobody else has chipped in, I'll look it up for you. But if you're another Republican from Virginia, you better have a check ready.

[David A Foulkes]

Can an alderman who votes against the prevailing side in Committe of the Whole second the motion in regular session?  An issue was discussed in Committe of the Whole, and it passed 5 - 3.  When the motion to move was brought up in Regular Session, the second came from one of the alderman who was in the 3 vote.  Is that a valid second for the motion, or should that motion be considered dead for lack of a second?

 

Per RONR, yes.

"A second merely implies that the seconder agrees that the motion should come before the meeting and not that he necessarily favors the motion." (RONR 11, p. 36 ll. 9-11)

This member could have even made the motion in Regular Session, but would be restricted against speaking against it in debate.

 

How your rules apply is not something this forum, which deals with the rules in RONR, can address.

[Josh Martin]

Can an alderman who votes against the prevailing side in Committe of the Whole second the motion in regular session?  An issue was discussed in Committe of the Whole, and it passed 5 - 3.  When the motion to move was brought up in Regular Session, the second came from one of the alderman who was in the 3 vote.  Is that a valid second for the motion, or should that motion be considered dead for lack of a second?

 

Since the motion is from a committee, no second is required.

[DrEntropy]

Also, I would point out that  'seconds' in small boards and committees is not required by RONR:pg. 487-488. As one of the few that will watch city council meetings on television, I see this this insistence on seconds all the time, and wonder why they do it. 

[Tom Coronite]

It may be the case that the city council has its own procedural rules other than RONR.

[Scorpion]

It may be the case that the city council has its own procedural rules other than RONR.

 

Or it may be that the city council is not a small board or committee.

[DrEntropy]

It may be the case that the city council has its own procedural rules other than RONR.

 

Certainly, but some of those procedures do seem silly to me.  

[Josh Martin]

Also, I would point out that  'seconds' in small boards and committees is not required by RONR:pg. 487-488. As one of the few that will watch city council meetings on television, I see this this insistence on seconds all the time, and wonder why they do it. 

 

A city council is not a board or committee, although small assemblies can adopt the small board rules if they wish.

 

As for the why, I'm sure people just get it stuck into their heads at some point that seconds are always required.

[Gary Novosielski]

Can an alderman who votes against the prevailing side in Committe of the Whole second the motion in regular session?  An issue was discussed in Committe of the Whole, and it passed 5 - 3.  When the motion to move was brought up in Regular Session, the second came from one of the alderman who was in the 3 vote.  Is that a valid second for the motion, or should that motion be considered dead for lack of a second?

 

The second is valid, but unnecessary.   People who second a motion need not be in favor of it, they may merely wish to see it discussed and voted down.

 

But it is unnecessary, since motions being reported out of a committee do not require a second.

[Guest Guest_Vince]

Thanks to all who responded.  Would it be wise for me to check with my local laws to see if the city has any specific rules on how seconds are handled?  I have seen committee chairs defer their motion to the vice-chair when they voted opposite the concensus.  That would tell me that their may be some local law that overrides Robert's Rules.

[Josh Martin]

Would it be wise for me to check with my local laws to see if the city has any specific rules on how seconds are handled?  I have seen committee chairs defer their motion to the vice-chair when they voted opposite the concensus.  That would tell me that their may be some local law that overrides Robert's Rules.

 

Yes, it would be very wise to check if the city council's rules or the city's laws provide otherwise on this subject.