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Abuse of Ordering the Previous Question


Guest Jared

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Hello,

 

My student association is more or less locked in to being a member of the Canadian Federation of Students as result of Bylaw amendments made after we joined (though that is another matter). At the regular general meetings of the organization, our attempts to effect change are constantly thwarted. Other delegations, on the advice of their staff, repeatedly call the question on any motion put forward by my association or by others who share our views immediately after the motion has been made and motivated to and then immediately vote our motions down. We have plead with other delegations to allow us to engage in debate, but they refuse. It is particularly saddening given that these are students who are refusing to allow other students to engage in discussion. Tonight I watched in horror as an entire report-full of Bylaw recommendations was voted on with no discussion on any of them, and as people cheered at their successes at stifling debate. Students lined up at the microphones all eager to get to be the one to call the question on any one of the motions up for debate.

 

My question is this: Is there any way for our delegates to procedurally prevent moving the previous question? It would have to be a tight case because the Federation handpicks external chairs who have had long relationships with them and any attempt to demand a neutral chair is shot down.

 

Any help that anyone can provide would be hugely appreciated. My delegation represents 7,500 students and our allies represent tens of thousands of students and I feel like we let them down when we are not even able to speak on their behalves at these meetings.

 

Thank you

 
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Since 2/3 of those voting don't want to debate the motion there is not much you can do.    See RONR 11th starting on pg 197.  

 

EDIT: I should point out, as you hopefully already know, a member is not be permitted to interrupt a speaker to "call the question" and the previous question is out of order when another has the floor. 

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What strikes me is that, according to Robert's Rules, the maker of a motion is entitled to the first speech in debate, and speeches are limited to ten minutes, and The Previous Question does not get priority. (An Objection to Consideration does; but don't give them ideas.) So unless the rules of the Canadian Federation of Students's regular general meetings don't give the maker of a motion the right to make the first speech, or if they limit speeches to a shorter amount of time, or give The Previous Question some priority higher than Robert's Rules gives it (which, I think, is none, but I didn't get past p. 199 this time), the maker of the motion will have ten minutes in which to make his points. (In comparison, the Gettysburg Address takes 1 minute, 25 seconds, I just timed it. It's not a Canadian speech, but still.)

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My question is this: Is there any way for our delegates to procedurally prevent moving the previous question? It would have to be a tight case because the Federation handpicks external chairs who have had long relationships with them and any attempt to demand a neutral chair is shot down.

 

If the Previous Question is being used properly, there is no procedural way to prevent it (well, not any way that would be easier than simply voting the motion down, anyway). It seems likely, however, that it is not being used properly. The maker of the Previous Question must gain recognition to make the motion, it cannot interrupt another member, and it requires a 2/3 vote for adoption. Additionally, the motion maker is entitled to preference in recognition, so unless the motion maker also wants to stifle debate, it's not possible to prevent debate entirely with the Previous Question.

 

So with this information, is your assembly handling the Previous Question properly? If not, a Point of Order is appropriate. If you could point out which rules are being violated we can find you the page citations you'll need to back that up.

 

So unless the rules of the Canadian Federation of Students's regular general meetings don't give the maker of a motion the right to make the first speech, or if they limit speeches to a shorter amount of time, or give The Previous Question some priority higher than Robert's Rules gives it (which, I think, is none, but I didn't get past p. 199 this time), the maker of the motion will have ten minutes in which to make his points.

 

You are correct that the Previous Question is not entitled to any preference in recognition.

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  • 3 months later...

Request to clarify, here:  I know that someone wanting to move "Previous Question" cannot interrupt a speaker.  Can s/he "crash" the Chair's speakers list?  If the person wishing to call the question is # 7 on the list the chair is keeping of those who have signalled desire to speak, can #7 leap in between speakers 3 and 4 to move the previous question?  I suppose it boils down to what being "duly recognized by the Chair" means.

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Request to clarify, here:  I know that someone wanting to move "Previous Question" cannot interrupt a speaker.  Can s/he "crash" the Chair's speakers list?  If the person wishing to call the question is # 7 on the list the chair is keeping of those who have signalled desire to speak, can #7 leap in between speakers 3 and 4 to move the previous question?  I suppose it boils down to what being "duly recognized by the Chair" means.

 

So far as RONR is concerned, there is no "speakers list." Members must seek recognition right after a member has yielded the floor. If they are not recognized at that time, they are not put on a waiting list - they must seek recognition again when the floor is yielded again. See RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 376-378.

 

If the organization's special rules of order provide for a "speakers list," it will be up to the organization to interpret its own rules (and possibly adopt some new ones to fill in any gaps). Generally speaking, I would say that a member seeking to move the Previous Question doesn't get to cut in line unless the organization's rules so provide, on the grounds that, under RONR, the Previous Question is not entitled to preference in recognition.

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