Guest Erin Seaman Posted December 5, 2013 at 10:21 PM Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 at 10:21 PM I work for a state agency and take minutes for several different committees and councils who hold regularly scheduled public meetings. On several of the councils, there are voting members who work for other state agencies but would like to abstain from voting in order to avoid appearing politically motivated or partisan. How should I show this in the meeting minutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted December 5, 2013 at 10:38 PM Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 at 10:38 PM I work for a state agency and take minutes for several different committees and councils who hold regularly scheduled public meetings. On several of the councils, there are voting members who work for other state agencies but would like to abstain from voting in order to avoid appearing politically motivated or partisan. How should I show this in the meeting minutes? Under RONR, abstentions are not listed in the minutes at all, unless the vote is taken by roll call, in which case they are simply marked as "Present." In any event, the reason for the abstention is not noted. Since these are public bodies, however, it's quite possible that applicable law provides otherwise on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted December 5, 2013 at 11:16 PM Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 at 11:16 PM How should I show this in the meeting minutes? One option is to do it the way it's always been done. if nothing else you'll have history (parliamentarians might call it "custom") on your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Timothy Posted December 6, 2013 at 01:31 AM Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 at 01:31 AM Under RONR, abstentions are not listed in the minutes at all, unless the vote is taken by roll call, in which case they are simply marked as "Present." In any event, the reason for the abstention is not noted. Since these are public bodies, however, it's quite possible that applicable law provides otherwise on this subject. If the Chair is sympathetic, could he announce "the motion passes (fails) ... and if there's no objection, the minutes will record that A, B, C abstained...", would that suffice to get the point into the minutes? A assuming it's important enough for A-C,B that's it's not going to happen often enough to be a burden andC that no one here objects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted December 6, 2013 at 01:49 AM Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 at 01:49 AM . . . would that suffice to get the point into the minutes? The minutes can contain whatever the assembly (subject to the rules and customs of the association) wants them to contain. All we can do here is remind people what RONR recommends. So, yes, the minutes could include a record of abstentions. And recipes for chocolate chip cookies. (By the way, when I'm not pretending to be a parliamentarian I process State income tax returns and you'd be surprised what people include.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Erin Seaman Posted December 6, 2013 at 02:48 PM Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 at 02:48 PM Thanks for all the help! This is from the applicable state statute regarding open meetings conducted by state agencies in my state (Idaho): Question No. 21: If a voice vote is used, must the minutes of the meeting reflect the vote of each member of a governing body by name? Answer: If a voice vote is taken, the minutes of the meeting must reflect the results of all votes, but the minutes need not indicate how each member voted, unless a member of the governing body requests such an indication.35 In our meetings, the Chair typically asks who's in favor, and who's opposed, but no request for vote by roll call has been made since I've been here (I've been with this agency only since August). Would you recommend that I show it as follows: "XYZ moved and ABC seconded a motion to approve the minutes of the meeting held on 1/2/3. The motion passed unanimously, with DEF abstaining." There are two different committees I'm involved with, one of them has a member who asked me after a meeting was over to specifically be listed as abstaining from a vote, and the other one hasn't specifically requested it, but stated at the time of the vote (during the meeting) that she was abstaining. (Perhaps my pumpkin bread recipe would also be appreciated as well in my next minutes since it is the holiday season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 6, 2013 at 03:30 PM Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 at 03:30 PM Well, since an abstention is (clearly!) not a vote, it would seem (I'm not a lawyer although I play one sometimes on the I'net - but if there is any question check with a real lawyer in your state) that there is no requirement to record names or anything else. However, there might be other provisions in the law ("any question", remember) that say you do have to record abstentioner's names, or something, if requested. RONR does not require it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted December 6, 2013 at 03:43 PM Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 at 03:43 PM If the Chair is sympathetic, could he announce "the motion passes (fails) ... and if there's no objection, the minutes will record that A, B, C abstained...", would that suffice to get the point into the minutes? Yes. Would you recommend that I show it as follows: "XYZ moved and ABC seconded a motion to approve the minutes of the meeting held on 1/2/3. The motion passed unanimously, with DEF abstaining." There are two different committees I'm involved with, one of them has a member who asked me after a meeting was over to specifically be listed as abstaining from a vote, and the other one hasn't specifically requested it, but stated at the time of the vote (during the meeting) that she was abstaining. Let's pretend that you used a different example so we can deal with your original question first. Then we'll deal with approving the minutes. So far as RONR is concerned, the minutes would read something like this: "Mr. X moved that (text of motion). The motion was adopted." RONR does not require the name of the seconder, the names of members who abstained, or the precise results of the motion (at least, not for a voice vote). If the assembly wishes to (or is required to) include these items, then it might read something like this: "Mr. X moved that (text of motion). Mr. Y seconded the motion. The motion was adopted by a vote of 5-0, with Mr. Z abstaining." I don't advise using the word "unanimously" since this fact has no significance and it just tends to lead to arguments over what constitutes "unanimously." No motion is required to approve the minutes, and even if such a motion is offered, no final vote is taken on the approval of the minutes. After any corrections are handled, the chair declares the minutes approved. The minutes might read, for instance, "The minutes of the previous meeting were read and approved as corrected." If you have any questions about what your state's statutes require, I'm afraid that's beyond the scope of this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Erin Seaman Posted December 9, 2013 at 02:38 PM Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 at 02:38 PM Thank you so much. That helps quite a bit actually. I appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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