Inability to Divide the Question after Consideration Seriatim

[Sean Hunt]

p. 277 ll. 13-16 state that a motion cannot be divided after consideration seriatim has begun. Why is this? It seems to me that consideration seriatim may increase a member's desire to vote on a part of the motion separately, as a result of closer inspection.

Additionally, for the editorial team, this seems like an awkward place to put such a rule. I think a better place would be in SDC 1 ofthe motion for a Division of a Question on p. 271, since that is where it states that "a motion to divide can be made at any time that the main motion ... is immediately pending" and the specific rule found on p. 277 is in fact an exception to this general rule.

[George Mervosh]

p. 277 ll. 13-16 state that a motion cannot be divided after consideration seriatim has begun. Why is this? It seems to me that consideration seriatim may increase a member's desire to vote on a part of the motion separately, as a result of closer inspection.

 

 

If you could take out and vote on part of the motion separately once seriatim consideration has begun, it may destroy what remains in the motion including all of the work done on it up to that point.  Long complicated motions are often connected in such a way that the removal of one part for separate consideration might make considering and perfecting the rest of it problematic, if not impossible. That should not be permitted once seriatim consideration has begun. In other words, it might create a hopeless mess if it could be done. That's just my view of it from a practical perspective.

[Josh Martin]

p. 277 ll. 13-16 state that a motion cannot be divided after consideration seriatim has begun. Why is this? It seems to me that consideration seriatim may increase a member's desire to vote on a part of the motion separately, as a result of closer inspection.

 

Division of a Question conflicts with the assembly's decision to consider the motion seriatim, and is therefore not in order. I also concur with Mr. Mervosh's comments.

 

As for the member who wishes to vote on part of the motion separately, he can achieve roughly the same object by moving to Amend the part of the motion he takes issue with.

 

Additionally, for the editorial team, this seems like an awkward place to put such a rule. I think a better place would be in SDC 1 ofthe motion for a Division of a Question on p. 271, since that is where it states that "a motion to divide can be made at any time that the main motion ... is immediately pending" and the specific rule found on p. 277 is in fact an exception to this general rule.

 

It's perfectly normal to write exceptions to the SDCs in the "Further Rules and Explanation" section.

[Sean Hunt]

If you could take out and vote on part of the motion separately once seriatim consideration has begun, it may destroy what remains in the motion including all of the work done on it up to that point.  Long complicated motions are often connected in such a way that the removal of one part for separate consideration might make considering and perfecting the rest of it problematic, if not impossible. That should not be permitted once seriatim consideration has begun. In other words, it might create a hopeless mess if it could be done. That's just my view of it from a practical perspective.

If diving the question was complicated or involved, then it's out of order in the first place, isn't it? And the same argument could apply to a motion perfected with amendments, as well.

[Sean Hunt]

Division of a Question conflicts with the assembly's decision to consider the motion seriatim, and is therefore not in order. I also concur with Mr. Mervosh's comments.

In what way does it conflict?

[Josh Martin]

If diving the question was complicated or involved, then it's out of order in the first place, isn't it?

 

Right. So for most motions for which seriatim consideration is a practical option, Division of the Question will be out of order in the first place.

 

In what way does it conflict?

 

When a motion is considered seriatim, the assembly perfects each paragraph or section and then a vote is taken on the motion as a whole. Dividing the question conflicts with this procedure.

[paulmcclintock]

The referenced rule on p. 277 is in SDC 8 for Seriatim: "Cannot be reconsidered. If it has been decided to consider divisible material seriatim, even if the material was divisible on the demand of a single member, it is too late to move or demand a division of the question."

 

I sure don't see the rationale for disallowing division of the question after each part is separately considered and you are in the final stage where the whole is open to debate and amendment.  I'd think that the seriatim procedure is essentially completed once all the parts are separately considered and perfected, and that when after that the entire motion (document) is open for further perfection, that at that point a motion to divide the question should be in order.  That's because once the separate parts are finished and the whole is then considered, it is in essence in the same condition as if you'd never ordered the seriatim procedure and had simply done all those amendments ad hoc.

 

But as the rule is written, it sure looks like it prohibits a division of the question at this point, because "it has been decided to consider...seriatim."