Can Member hold two positions on executive board at same time?

[Guest Dan O'Hara]

Our organization has bylaw which states that when the President finishes his or her term of office ( 2 years paid salary ) and either does not run again or is defeated in an election, he or she becomes the immediate past president which is a two year postion ( 2 years paid salary and voting rights on board ).  Our current president chose not to run for President and therefore will become the immediate past president, however he chose to run for the position of trustee ( 2 years paid salary and voting rights on board ), he was elected as trustee at the election.  In our organization you can only run for one position at election time, however immediate past president is not an 'elected position' , it is held by the last president.  My question is, was the President under Roberts Rules permitted to run for the Office of trustee because our bylaws state the immediate past president has duties to perform for the President and must assume that position, and if so must he then be removed from the poition of trustee and the candidate with the next highest number of votes be elected to that position?  If not then since he holds two positions does he vote twice and get paid for both positions?  This issue is not addressed in our bylaws or the bylaws of the organization which we are subordinate to.  Any help on this matter would be appreciated as I cannot find an answer.

[Josh Martin]

My question is, was the President under Roberts Rules permitted to run for the Office of trustee because our bylaws state the immediate past president has duties to perform for the President and must assume that position...

 

No rule in RONR would prohibit the member from running for or serving in the office of Trustee. The fact that he is required to serve as Immediate Past President doesn't mean much, as no rule in RONR would prohibit the member from serving in both positions. It's possible that your bylaws provide otherwise.

 

...if so must he then be removed from the poition of trustee and the candidate with the next highest number of votes be elected to that position?

 

If your bylaws provide that the member cannot serve as Trustee and as Immediate Past President, then the election for Trustee is null and void. The candidate with the next highest number of votes is not automatically elected to the position, however, unless your rules so provide. Rather, another election would be held for that position.

 

If not then since he holds two positions does he vote twice and get paid for both positions?

 

He only gets one vote, but no rule in RONR would prevent him from being paid for both positions. Your rules may provide otherwise.

 

This issue is not addressed in our bylaws or the bylaws of the organization which we are subordinate to. 

 

Well then, as noted, no rule in RONR prevents the member from serving in and being paid for both positions, but he only gets one vote.

[Guest Dan O'Hara]

6 persons ran for 3 elected trustee spots, so the fact that he holds two positions eliminates one board position because he holds two spots, this does not violate Roberts Rules in some way? I do appreciate your quick response also. Thank you

[jstackpo]

No "violation" of RONR at all.

[Josh Martin]

6 persons ran for 3 elected trustee spots, so the fact that he holds two positions eliminates one board position because he holds two spots, this does not violate Roberts Rules in some way?

 

No. RONR specifically notes that a member may serve in more than one office unless the bylaws provide otherwise.

[Guest Dan O'Hara]

Thanks again.

[KatB]

On 3/20/2014 at 3:00 PM, Josh Martin said:

If your bylaws provide that the member cannot serve as Trustee and as Immediate Past President, then the election for Trustee is null and void. The candidate with the next highest number of votes is not automatically elected to the position, however, unless your rules so provide. Rather, another election would be held for that position.

 

He only gets one vote, but no rule in RONR would prevent him from being paid for both positions. Your rules may provide otherwise.

Well then, as noted, no rule in RONR prevents the member from serving in and being paid for both positions, but he only gets one vote.

Q: "If not then since he holds two positions does he vote twice and get paid for both positions?"

A: "He only gets one vote, but no rule in RONR would prevent him from being paid for both positions. Your rules may provide otherwise. "

I'm trying to find this "two positions, one vote" determination in RONR, but failing miserably. Can you please direct me to the proper page, line or section?

Thank you

KBeringer

[Steven Britton]

20 minutes ago, KatB said:

Q: "If not then since he holds two positions does he vote twice and get paid for both positions?"

A: "He only gets one vote, but no rule in RONR would prevent him from being paid for both positions. Your rules may provide otherwise. "

I'm trying to find this "two positions, one vote" determination in RONR, but failing miserably. Can you please direct me to the proper page, line or section?

Thank you

KBeringer

Try pp. 263 ll. 24 - 28 (11th ed.) The citation is copied bellow:

 Likewise, since it is a fundamental principle that each member of a deliberative assembly is entitled to one—and only one—vote on a question, the rules may not be suspended so as to authorize cumulative voting (pp. 443–44).

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Also see "One person, one vote" in RONR 11th ed., p. 407.

[KatB]

Thank you Steven!

KatB

[KatB]

And thank you Hieu!

KatB

[Gary Novosielski]

5 hours ago, KatB said:

Q: "If not then since he holds two positions does he vote twice and get paid for both positions?"

A: "He only gets one vote, but no rule in RONR would prevent him from being paid for both positions. Your rules may provide otherwise. "

I'm trying to find this "two positions, one vote" determination in RONR, but failing miserably. Can you please direct me to the proper page, line or section?

Thank you

KBeringer

The rule is one-person/one-vote.   Positions do not have votes.  People do.

See Öne Person One Vote" in §45.

[Richard Brown]

As Edgar Guest was fond of saying. " You count heads, not hats".  A member does not get an extra vote for wearing two hats. He still has just one head. 

[Rev Ed]

And as usual, this shows why it is a bad idea to automatically make the Immediate Past President a member of the Board.

[Guest Tom]

I've got a concern about the opposite situation. What if two people are "co-officers" of a single position? Supposedly the body has past precedents for doing this, and justify it because each member then gets "half a vote".

In reality, board decisions are generally made by consensus, so this seems like an easy way to way to gain advantage by packing the debate with friendly voices.

What's the best way to address this situation?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Please post as a new topic.

[Richard Brown]

16 minutes ago, Guest Tom said:

I've got a concern about the opposite situation. What if two people are "co-officers" of a single position? Supposedly the body has past precedents for doing this, and justify it because each member then gets "half a vote".

In reality, board decisions are generally made by consensus, so this seems like an easy way to way to gain advantage by packing the debate with friendly voices.

What's the best way to address this situation?

Don't have co-presidents, co-chairs or co-"anything else".  You are on your own and have to figure the voting out out for yourselves if you want anything other than the traditional "one member = one vote".    This is true whether you have co-chairs, family memberships, or whatever.

RONR doesn't directly address "co-presidents", "co-officers, family memberships, etc.  But, here is what it has to say about co-chairs for committees:  "If the committee's task is heavy and will require some time to complete, it often is advisable to appoint a vice-chairman. The anomalous title "co-chairman" should be avoided, as it causes impossible dilemmas in attempts to share the functions of a single position. "

Those of us who post regularly on this forum firmly believe that the same principle  applies to co-officers of any type.

[Gary Novosielski]

I think it is unnecessary to speculate on whether the rule extends to officers.  Since the only officers of an organization are those specified in the bylaws, there can be no co-anything unless that office is specified in the bylaws.  And the principle of one-person-one-vote is explicit.  Half votes do not exist unless the bylaws so provide.

In any case, both of those variations remain Bad Ideas.  

[Guest Elizabeth]

We are having a similar problem in our HOA, the secretary resigned all of a sudden so the VP stated that a board member can hold 2 positions. Our Bylaws do not address this. "One person for one position"  but one of the present board members said she will take notes and fill in as secretary until we can replace the position of the secretary  The VP is stating that it is "Legal" to hold 2 positions.   Please address this as I am the present Parliamentarian.

[Josh Martin]

10 minutes ago, Guest Elizabeth said:

We are having a similar problem in our HOA, the secretary resigned all of a sudden so the VP stated that a board member can hold 2 positions. Our Bylaws do not address this. "One person for one position"  but one of the present board members said she will take notes and fill in as secretary until we can replace the position of the secretary  The VP is stating that it is "Legal" to hold 2 positions.   Please address this as I am the present Parliamentarian.

A person can hold two positions unless the bylaws provide otherwise. Since you say your bylaws are silent on this matter, a person can hold two positions.

[Weldon Merritt]

Guest Elizabeth, please post your question as a new topic. This thread is over two years old.