Procedure for "Automatic Referral" to a Committee

[mmpullen]

This post is a follow-up to my post yesterday "Committees Created by Adopting a Standing Rule" but is going off on a different tangent, so new post.

All proposals for bylaws amendments are required to be referred to the Bylaws Committee for study and report to the assembly. Scenario: In a meeting of the assembly, a member makes a proper motion to propose a Bylaws amendment (the "certain item of business" which gets "automatically referred").

Q: Does the motion need to be seconded? (Our bylaws say any member can directly refer a proposed amendment to the Bylaws Committee. But if it's a motion made by a member in a meeting of the assembly. . .???)

Q: If following the motion (and second?) does the chair need to ask "Is there any debate?"

Q: If there is debate,is the "automatic referral" treated like an unstated motion to refer and the debate is on the unstated motion to refer and not the original motion except to the extent allowed in RONR in footnote #4 on tinted page 13?

Thank you.

[Transpower]

No second is needed.  Any member may give "notice" of a proposed amendment; however, instead of being put on the agenda for the next meeting, the proposal goes to the bylaws committee.  Only if the bylaws committee votes it out (with or without its own amendments) will it be considered at the next or future meeting of the assembly. 

[Guest Nancy N.]

This post is a follow-up to my post yesterday "Committees Created by Adopting a Standing Rule" but is going off on a different tangent, so new post...

 

 

Thank you for starting this new thread, and especial thanks for giving the date and title of the previous thread, for reference!  I, for one, am very appreciative; this is (regrettably) uncommonly considerate and diligent.

 

... All proposals for bylaws amendments are required to be referred to the Bylaws Committee for study and report to the assembly. Scenario: In a meeting of the assembly, a member makes a proper motion to propose a Bylaws amendment (the "certain item of business" which gets "automatically referred").

Q: Does the motion need to be seconded? (Our bylaws say any member can directly refer a proposed amendment to the Bylaws Committee. But if it's a motion made by a member in a meeting of the assembly. . .???)

Q: If following the motion (and second?) does the chair need to ask "Is there any debate?"

Q: If there is debate,is the "automatic referral" treated like an unstated motion to refer and the debate is on the unstated motion to refer and not the original motion except to the extent allowed in RONR in footnote #4 on tinted page 13?

Thank you.

 

I'll assume -- usually unwarranted, and making a "sume" out of U and ME (I understood once what that expression means, but darn if I can make sense of it now), but the estimable mmpullen has demonstrated his or her deserving of confidence -- that the first sentence of his (sigh) second paragraph is an accurate and complete rendition of everything germane in the bylaws.  I'm pretty sure that RONR does not spell out the answers to mmpullen's questions, so his guesses are as good as mine (or those of the puissant parliamentary paladin Captain Transpower).  But, and partly going on what Mssrs. Huynh and Honemann (both pronounced "honemann," by some odd prehistoric juxtaposition of the development of the Germanic languages, derived from Indo-European, and the East Asian languages, derived from, um, something else) said in "Committees Created," I'll venture that, as Transpower says, seconds are not needed; there is no debate, inasmuch as the chair, upon hearing the motion, declares it referred; and, assuming that somehow there is debate, I have no clue as to what it should be about.

[Edgar Guest]

Thank you for starting this new thread, and especial thanks for giving the date and title of the previous thread, for reference!  I, for one, am very appreciative; this is (regrettably) uncommonly considerate and diligent.

 

I agree.

 

Though a link would have been a nice touch.

[mmpullen]

Though a link would have been a nice touch.

 

 

There is much to learn with your patient assistance, Mr. Guest.

[Edgar Guest]

There is much to learn with your patient assistance, Mr. Guest.

 

I'm glad you took it as a suggestion (which it was) and not a criticism (which it wasn't).

 

I was also glad for the rare opportunity to agree with Guest Nancy N. 

 

Rare because I usually have no idea what she's saying.

[Josh Martin]

This post is a follow-up to my post yesterday "Committees Created by Adopting a Standing Rule" but is going off on a different tangent, so new post.All proposals for bylaws amendments are required to be referred to the Bylaws Committee for study and report to the assembly. Scenario: In a meeting of the assembly, a member makes a proper motion to propose a Bylaws amendment (the "certain item of business" which gets "automatically referred").

Q: Does the motion need to be seconded? (Our bylaws say any member can directly refer a proposed amendment to the Bylaws Committee. But if it's a motion made by a member in a meeting of the assembly. . .???)

Q: If following the motion (and second?) does the chair need to ask "Is there any debate?"

Q: If there is debate,is the "automatic referral" treated like an unstated motion to refer and the debate is on the unstated motion to refer and not the original motion except to the extent allowed in RONR in footnote #4 on tinted page 13?Thank you.

While I concur with my colleagues, I should note that this is a rather unusual example. Amendments to the bylaws require notice, and therefore the member's proposal should be treated not as a motion, but as notice of a motion (which does not require a second). The chair indeed declares the proposed amendment referred to the bylaws committee without debate or a vote.

If this was about pretty much anything other than amendments to the bylaws, a second would be required, since in other cases a member would be making an actual motion, but the procedure would otherwise be the same.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

And here's an example from RONR (relating to a Resolutions Committee for a convention):

 

Under this system, the proposer of the resolution says, "Mr. President, I move the adoption of [or "I offer"] the resolution which I have sent to the Secretary's desk." The secretary reads the resolution, announcing the names of the mover and seconder, and the chair says, "Under the rules the resolution is referred to the Resolutions Committee." (RONR 11th ed., p. 633, l. 31 to p. 634, l. 2)