The Other David Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:14 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:14 PM Did I find a typo, or am I just not understanding? On page 264, ll 9-12 is the statement, “...the rules may not be suspended so as to deny any particular member the right to attend meetings, make motions or nominations, speak in debate, give previous notice, or vote.” Shouldn't the phrase, “give previous notice” read “be given previous notice?” If not, what does it mean to “give previous notice?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:18 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:18 PM "Give previous notice" means to announce that a motion will be introduced at the next meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other David Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:26 PM Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:26 PM Exactly my point. The individual member does not have the right to “give previous notice” in the context of “attend meetings, make motions or nominations, speak in debate,” but does have the right to “be given previous notice” of a meeting. The word “give” would refer to an obligation of the executive officers, not a right of the individual member. Of course, I may be just slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:31 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:31 PM Have you read p. 3, ll. 1-9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:32 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:32 PM 3 minutes ago, The Other David said: The individual member does not have the right to “give previous notice” in the context of “attend meetings, make motions or nominations, speak in debate,” but does have the right to “be given previous notice” of a meeting. The word “give” would refer to an obligation of the executive officers, not a right of the individual member. Of course, I may be just slow. Both directions hold. • I am a member. I have the right to give previous notice. • I am a member. Where another member has given previous notice, I have the right to receive previous notice so given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other David Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:37 PM Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:37 PM So I think I hear you saying that the individual member has the right to “give previous notice” that he intends to make a certain motion at the next meeting? I think I'm having a hard time understanding why that is a right and not an obligation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:39 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:39 PM I'm under no obligation to give previous notice of a motion to rescind, or to amend something previously adopted unless a rule requires it.......as bylaw amendments often do. But not for other motions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:41 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:41 PM Even then, it is NOT the receipt of previous notice which is fundamental -- since the previous notice can be done orally, i.e., by announcement. It is possible that the session (in the technical Robertian sense) will be one where no written mailed previous notice ever goes out, of an oral announcement of previous notice -- as would be the case in a multi-day convention. In a long convention, previous notice could be given on Day One; and be reached or exercised on Day Last. Note that no mailing, nor telephoning; nor emailing; will have occurred, by the Secretary, or any officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other David Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:48 PM Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:48 PM Okay, I can see why it's not an obligation. So, what the statement on page 264 is saying is that I, as a member, have the right to notify other members of my intention to bring a certain matter before the assembly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:50 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:50 PM It should be noted, by the way, that you have this right, not because you're an attention-seeker who likes to announce things before doing them, but because denying you the right to give notice would change the vote requirements for certain motions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:50 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:50 PM 5 minutes ago, The Other David said: S1.) So I think I hear you saying that the individual member has the right to “give previous notice” that he intends to make a certain motion at the next meeting? S2.) I think I'm having a hard time understanding why that is a right and not an obligation. S1 is per Robert's Rules of Order -- i.e., the act of giving. *** S2, where you are not referring to giving, but are referring to receipt, is a horse of a different kettle of fish (mixed metaphor). You are asserting that "receipt is a right". But it is not. Where previous notice is given orally, by announcement in a meeting, then the absentee members will continue to be ignorant of the previous notice so given, if the meeting is a series of consecutive meetings conducted under one order of business -- as would be the case in a multi-day convention. or multi-day annual meeting. Thus, it is not a fundamental principle that an absentee member receive (orally-given) previous notice as would be the case in a multi-day "session" (convention or annual meeting). *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other David Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:51 PM Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:51 PM Sorry George, I missed your post when you first made it. The statement on page 3, ll 3-9 certainly clarifies this matter a great deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other David Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:56 PM Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 05:56 PM And I think the right to give such notice is also helpful to me as a member in that in giving such notice, I may also be garnering support for the motion I intend to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted March 7, 2016 at 06:49 PM Report Share Posted March 7, 2016 at 06:49 PM 50 minutes ago, The Other David said: And I think the right to give such notice is also helpful to me as a member in that in giving such notice, I may also be garnering support for the motion I intend to make. That was my point. It may be helpful for that purpose, but I highly doubt that this is a reason to make it a right. Lots of other things would also help you garner support - for instance, letting you speak in favor of your motion when you give notice, but that isn't allowed. Letting you give out beer when giving notice would also help, and also isn't allowed. I don't think you have that right because it helps you in a political sense, but rather because it has a parliamentary effect that, at times, cannot be achieved in another way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g40 Posted March 8, 2016 at 01:04 AM Report Share Posted March 8, 2016 at 01:04 AM One example where "giving previous notice" would be to rescind or amend something previously adopted. The threshold for rescinding or amending something previously adopted is (or may be) lower if previous notice is given by a member of an organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted March 9, 2016 at 04:49 AM Report Share Posted March 9, 2016 at 04:49 AM On 3/7/2016 at 0:37 PM, The Other David said: So I think I hear you saying that the individual member has the right to “give previous notice” that he intends to make a certain motion at the next meeting? I think I'm having a hard time understanding why that is a right and not an obligation. The member does not have an obligation to give previous notice of his intent to make a motion at the next meeting. But he might very well want to exercise his right to give previous notice because not doing so in some cases would raise the vote threshold for the motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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