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Unnanimous votes aye-- requirements?


Guest Tiana Grgurina

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Guest Tiana Grgurina

 When you have a unanimous vote, is it necessary to also have a vote for nays or abstention votes in this circumstance?  Or to record all 3 votes for the minutes?  Seems very redundant! We have a small church and one member is insistent that we do so, despite unanimity-- including herself?! Just to "meet the requirements of Robert's Rules of Order. Isn't a unanimous vote on a motion sufficient (inluding seconds and discussion)? With all the members in attendance listed in the minutes as the "unanimous voters"?  Please give me some feedback.

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RONR provides that the chair should almost always ask for the negative vote after calling for the yeas.  The chair does not ask for abstentions.  Here is the pertinent language from pages 44-45 of the current 11th edition of RONR:

The vote on a motion is normally taken by voice (or viva voce),* unless, under certain conditions, it is taken by rising or—sometimes in committees, or in small boards, or other very small assemblies—by a show of hands. In putting [page 45] the question by any of these methods, the chair calls first for the affirmative vote, and all who wish to vote in favor of the motion so indicate in the manner specified; then he calls for the negative vote. The chair must always call for the negative vote, no matter how nearly unanimous the affirmative vote may appear, except that this rule is commonly relaxed in the case of noncontroversial motions of a complimentary or courtesy nature; but even in such a case, if any member objects, the chair must call for the negative vote. A further exception arises when the negative vote is intrinsically irrelevant, as, for example, when "a vote of one fifth of the members present" is required, and the number who have voted in the affirmative is clearly greater than one fifth of those present (see p. 403). The chair should not call for abstentions in taking a vote, since the number of members who respond to such a call is meaningless. To "abstain" means not to vote at all, and a member who makes no response if "abstentions" are called for abstains just as much as one who responds to that effect (see also p. 407). "

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There is no need to list the votes in the minutes unless there has been a roll call vote.  Thus, the minutes shouldn't list all the members in attendance as "unanimous voters," it should simply say that the motion carried or not.

To seek unanimous consent where there is not expected to be controversy, the chair should ask "is there objection to...?"  If there is objection, you proceed to a vote by asking for ayes and nays.  In the absence of objection, though, the motion is adopted.  The person you mention is free to always object, of course, and force a vote. 

If you've held a voice vote and asked for the ayes, then you should indeed ask for the nays as well (but not the abstentions).  In a voice vote, you can't be sure that everyone shouted when you asked for the ayes.  But you also should not record the number voting each way, for the same reason - you don't know exactly how many votes there were.

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p. 45, ll. 4-9, says "The chair must always call for the negative vote, no matter how nearly unanimous the affirmative vote may appear, except that this rule is commonly relaxed in the case of noncontroversial motions of a complimentary or courtesy nature; but even in such a case, if any member objects, the chair must call for the negative vote." If there is true unanimity, then the motion could also be adopted by unanimous consent, see pp. 54-55. On the other, hand, abstentions should never be called for, p. 14-19.

It's also worth noting that a vote count is only recorded in the minutes if the vote is explicitly counted per p. 470, l. 29 to p. 471 l. 3. In other words, record the totals only if both the number of votes in favour and against are counted up and the chair announces the numbers. While this should normally done for a two-thirds vote (see pp. 401-402), most votes are uncounted, so the minutes should simply say "the motion was adopted" or "the motion was defeated". The decision to count the vote is up to the chair alone, unless ordered by a majority vote of the assembly (p. 410, ll. 26).

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There are not three types of votes, only two, Yes, or No.  Abstentions are never called for or recorded, as they are not votes; they re abstaining from voting.

The names of voters are not normally recorded in the minutes for any vote except those held by the Roll Call method.  

I'm confused by the apparent obsession with unanimous votes.  Are you referring to votes that MUST be unanimous in order to pass?  RONR doesn't have such votes, but I ask because it's possible your bylaws might.  Even so, what gets recorded in the minutes  is typically just whether the motion passed or not, unless a counted vote or roll call vote was ordered.

It is not a requirement of  RONR that unanimous votes be recorded any differently from non-unanimous votes, for example:

Mr. Johnson moved “that the clubhouse be painted red.” The motion was adopted after debate.

By reading the minutes we don't know what the vote (presumably not counted) was, nor whether the vote was unanimous.  We do know that the motion was adopted, presumably by meeting the requisite vote threshold for this kind of motion.

 

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While concurring with my colleagues, I would also ask if perhaps you are referring to a "unanimous consent" vote, which is often a quick and simple way to move efficiently through business that is not controversial? In that case, you don't ask for either ayes or noes. The chair simply says, "the question is on ___________________. Is there any objection?" The chair pauses briefly and looks across the room to be sure no one is seeking to be recognized or indicating any objection, then says, "there being no objection, it is so ordered." 

If there is any objection, then the chair shifts to a voice vote, asking for by the ayes and the noes before making a declaration.

And when this method is used, the minutes should read, "the motion to ______________ was adopted by unanimous consent." 

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When suggesting language to be used by a presiding officer, it's best to follow the wording recommended by RONR.

To obtain unanimous consent ..., the chair states that "If there is no objection ... [or, "Without objection ..."]," the action that he mentions will be taken; or he may ask, "Is there any objection to ... ?" He then pauses, and if no member calls out, "I object," the chair announces that, "Since there is no objection ...," the action is decided upon.  (RONR, 11th ed., p. 54, ll. 23-29)

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