disciplinary committee meeting Disciplinary Committee

[Guest Harper]

1 hour ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Guest Harper, your initial posts in this thread were just plain wrong, and they haven't gotten any better. It's time to give it up.

Will do, sir.

[Rev Ed]

On 5/28/2017 at 1:03 PM, Richard Brown said:

Question to those who have responded: Who should have the ultimate authority to decide whether (A) copies will actually be distributed, (B) whether said copies will be numbered and signed for and (C) whether said copies shall be collected at the end of the meeting? The president? The board? The "prosecution team"? The committee itself? Or some other body?

Well, the general membership should ultimately decide this by putting it into the By-laws.  For example, a By-law could read something like this: "As for issues of discipline, the Society shall follow the disciplinary options available under the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised with the following exemptions: a) that all copies of records related to the disciplinary be made available to all Committee members and that the copies shall be numbered and signed for by each member of the Disciplinary Committee who receives a copy and that all copies shall be collected at the end of the disciplinary action."

The wording could be altered to make it more clear or correct, but it would allow for this to be handled.  Otherwise, I would suggest that the Committee make the decision for themselves at the moment.

1 hour ago, Guest Harper said:

Mr. Martin, what if someone says something that it potentially illegal or defamatory?

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Defamation involves what was said.

But the Minutes of any meeting, under RONR, do not contain what was said but what was decided.  Therefore, there should be no defamation contained in the Minutes.  However, I am not a lawyer, so I cannot tell you what would occur if the issue went to court.  However, if there are libelous statements contained in any records used at the disciplinary meeting, the accused should disagree with them and try to prevent as much evidence as possible about why those comments are incorrect.  However, we cannot get further into legal related issues, only a lawyer can advise you on what would occur if these records are used to convict an accused at a disciplinary hearing and the accused tries to take the issue to court.

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That may or may not be. It depends on what people say in an executive session. Technology has passed us by. There were no smart phones when Gen. Robert wrote his first edition. And there was no internet. People in official positions need to be careful what they say.

There should be no records of what occurred at the hearing other then the Minutes (indicating what decisions were made, not who said what), and any report provided back to the Board or general membership, as required.

We are also way past the first edition of RONR - I believe we are up to the 11th Edition of Robert's Rules.   The whole point of Executive Session is so that people can say what needs to be said in private without their statements being taken out of context.  RONR allows for a trial and at that trial the accused has the right to defend himself/herself.  So the accused can correct any statements (or deny any statements) made by others.

[Josh Martin]

3 hours ago, Guest Harper said:

Mr. Martin, what if someone says something that it potentially illegal or defamatory?

Then those statements may also not be disclosed.

3 hours ago, Guest Harper said:

That may or may not be. It depends on what people say in an executive session. Technology has passed us by. There were no smart phones when Gen. Robert wrote his first edition. And there was no internet. People in official positions need to be careful what they say.

So far as the rules in RONR are concerned, a trial must be held in executive session. Deviating from this would require the mutual agreement of both the accused and the society. This is the rule as of the 11th edition, written in 2011, and it is the rule regardless of what is said in executive session.

3 hours ago, Guest Harper said:

The question always goes back to Page 16, Mr. Martin - where the law and RONR part ways. RONR is an excellent guide - and particularly your trial procedures are well-crafted for laymen - but they can't replace a legal professional. And they're not expected to. They're a manual or guide with clearly defined limits per Page 16.

I have not intended to suggest otherwise. Procedural rules in applicable law take precedence in RONR in all cases where there is a conflict, and of course discussing legal issues is beyond the scope of RONR and this forum. My only intent has been to make clear what the rules in RONR provide.

[J. J.]

3 hours ago, Rev Ed said:

But the Minutes of any meeting, under RONR, do not contain what was said but what was decided.  Therefore, there should be no defamation contained in the Minutes. 

 

The society could adopt a resolution that was defamatory,and that would be recorded in the minutes. 

[Rev Ed]

On 5/31/2017 at 4:31 PM, J. J. said:

The society could adopt a resolution that was defamatory,and that would be recorded in the minutes. 

Okay - yes I concur.  But that would be in the Minutes.   However, at the same time we are not lawyers - it is quite possible that a court could order the Minutes to be produced in order determine if the resolution or motion contained anything defamatory.  But we cannot twll the original poster if that would occur or not.

[J. J.]

On 6/2/2017 at 5:34 PM, Rev Ed said:

Okay - yes I concur.  But that would be in the Minutes.   However, at the same time we are not lawyers - it is quite possible that a court could order the Minutes to be produced in order determine if the resolution or motion contained anything defamatory.  But we cannot twll the original poster if that would occur or not.

I was merely noting that the minutes could be defamatory because a motion this is defamatory may be included in them.