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Daniel H. Honemann

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Everything posted by Daniel H. Honemann

  1. President be on review minute committee

    Nothing in RONR would prevent the Chapter President from being on the "review minute committee" (whatever that is). President's report is on what? The minutes? The report itself probably doesn't belong in the minutes. But in any event, there would appear to be no reason why this would prevent the President from being on the committee.
  2. Ratification process for newbies

    The necessity for ratification is to "confirm or make valid an action already taken that cannot become valid until approved by the assembly" (RONR, 11th ed., p. 124).
  3. Determining winner with multiple candidates

    I think our dinner guest is pointing out that, if there are illegal votes which have been cast, simply having more votes than all of the other candidates combined may not suffice for election.
  4. Quorum of Board needed for Association Meeting?

    No. As far as the rules in RONR are concerned, when more than half of the members of an association are present at a meeting of its membership, a quorum is present even if no members of the board are present.
  5. Is the election valid?

    There can be no doubt but that the book says that a plurality that is not a majority never adopts any proposition or elects anyone to office unless a special rule of order has been previously adopted saying so, and that if such a rule is to apply to the election of officers, it must be in the bylaws (a special rule of order will not suffice). I gather you are saying that, even although this is itself a rule of order, it is a rule which cannot be suspended. However, I can't find this anywhere on pages 263-66, and I can't find it anywhere on page 251 either. And by the way, I think that if an organization's bylaws contain a provision adopting RONR as its parliamentary authority, the exact language of this rule should be regarded as being a part of its bylaws.
  6. Is the election valid?

    That assumption would be erroneous.
  7. Is the election valid?

    I think it was an election of an officer.
  8. Is the election valid?

    First of all, please note those words "in general" in the midst of that quote (I've taken the liberty of bolding them within the quote). Secondly, it is an undeniable fact that, in the instant case, the only rule which was violated was the rule requiring a majority vote for adoption, which rule is, in and of itself, a rule which can be suspended. Violation of this rule will not, in and of itself, give rise to a breach of a continuing nature. Having said all that, I do understand your insistence that the result should be different if the rule establishing the vote required for adoption is coupled with a rule requiring a ballot vote. However, this seems to be based upon an assumption that every time the chair announces the result of a ballot vote there is an assumed request for unanimous consent to the suspension of any rule which may have been violated. I ain't buying it. But these are all points which have been made many times over in this thread, one way or another, and so I think it rather pointless to continue to hammer away at them.
  9. Opening and closing cermonies

    I'm rather surprised that your chapter hasn't done away with these "opening ceremonies" long ago.
  10. Ballot Votes in Committee

    I agree with Mr. Mervosh. Take a look at what is said on page 500 of RONR, 11th ed., concerning committee procedure. The general rule, as you will note, is that "Committees of organized societies operate under the bylaws, the parliamentary authority, and any special rules of order or standing rules of the society which may be applicable to them."

    As best I can determine, you did get this right. You tell us that your rule says that "if there is only one nomination a vote of acclamation* is taken, if the vote is not unanimous, the position goes back to the groups for further nominations." If this rule has not been rescinded (and you tell us that it has not been rescinded), then it overrides any rule or rules in RONR with which it may conflict. ----------------------------------------------------- * (or perhaps "acclimation")
  12. Unanimous Consent during Bylaw Revision

    I trust you understand that, when considering a proposed revision of the bylaws seriatim, although proposed amendments to each paragraph are voted on as they arise during consideration of that paragraph (and so could be adopted by unanimous consent instead), no paragraph, whether amended or not, is voted on individually.
  13. Use/Misuse of Unanimous Consent

    Next time please spend about two more seconds thinking before posting and I'm sure that other ways in which the use of unanimous consent can be precluded by some rule other than a rule in the bylaws will also leap to mind, as well as instances in which unanimous consent, even if sought and obtained, will not suffice for adoption.
  14. Use/Misuse of Unanimous Consent

    It probably can't, and nothing in those two sentences you have referred to indicates otherwise.
  15. Use/Misuse of Unanimous Consent

    In what respect do they seem to contradict each other?
  16. Is the election valid?

    I agree with Mr. Novosielski. To say that an assembly's doing absolutely nothing constitutes the taking of a vote is a bit of a stretch. None of these things happened.
  17. Is the election valid?

    As of now, the election stands, and it will continue to stand unless and until your assembly takes some affirmative action to overturn it. The minutes of your last meeting should reflect exactly what transpired at that meeting. In other words, do nothing. If a point of order is raised at any future meeting claiming that the election was invalid because of the fact that the person declared to have been elected did not receive a majority of the votes cast, I think that the chair should rule that the point of order comes too late, citing RONR (11th ed.), p. 250, l.30 to p. 251, l. 23; p. 408, l. 35 to p. 409, l. 10; p. 445, l. 8 to p. 446, l. 2). Or perhaps the chair will cite these "unofficial findings" of this "officiating body" (whatever that is). No matter how unofficial this body's findings may be, I'm sure that they are no more unofficial than the opinions being expressed here in this forum.
  18. Is the election valid?

    After the chair declared that 6 was elected, the only violation of the rules which had occurred and as to which a point of order could have been raised was the erroneous declaration by the chair that a plurality vote was sufficient for election.
  19. Is the election valid?

    J.J., you've made up your own set of facts. We are dealing here with the facts provided by the OP, and I think it would be helpful if you would stay with those facts.
  20. Is the election valid?

    It is certainly true that a bylaw requirement that a ballot vote be taken may not be suspended. In the instant case, we are told that the bylaws require a majority vote for election, but I don't believe that we've been told that the bylaws require that the vote be by ballot. But even if the bylaws here do require that the vote be by ballot, the vote was, in fact, taken by ballot. The rule violated was not the rule that a ballot vote be taken. The rule violated was the rule requiring a majority vote for election.
  21. Deleting Parliamentary Procedure from by-laws

    Well, consistently following a certain practice because it is mandated by a written rule may be referred to as a customary practice in a certain sense, but it will not create a "custom", within the meaning of that term as defined on page 19.
  22. Is the election valid?

    And Mr. Jacobs, you are clearly reading something into what is said on page 413, lines 1-9, that simply isn't there. Neither raising a point of order regarding the conduct of a ballot vote, nor taking a voice vote on the validity of such a point of order, will violate in any respect the rule set forth (clumsily or not) on page 413, lines 1-9.
  23. Is the election valid?

    Mr. Katz, exceptions to the rule that points of order regarding the conduct of the vote in an election must be raised immediately following the announcement of the voting result are listed on pages 445-46. The erroneous declaration that an officer has been elected by a plurality that is not a majority isn't one of them.