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paulmcclintock

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About paulmcclintock

  • Birthday August 12

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  1. RONR p. 468, ll. 31-32 say that minutes should contain "the date and time of the meeting, and the place, if it is not always the same." An organized society can meet by teleconference per bylaws, and adopts RONR, but has no rule addressing this particular issue. Should (must?) the minutes contain the phone number and access code for the teleconference meeting as it's "location" (assuming it is not always the same)?
  2. Where does a delegate report to his unit occur in agenda?

    Ah, I had missed these in RONR, which answer nicely the question. So even a delegation of one is in effect a committee of one. So reporting under Special Committees seems generally indicated. But if the President is ex officio a delegate, he/she could also give the report under the officers report, I'd think, as it relates to his/her duty as president. Thanks all for your feedback!
  3. An uncounted rising vote is taken. The chair declares the result. It is moved and seconded that the vote be counted. The chair does not process the motion for a counted vote, but instead immediately begins to retake the vote as a counted vote. Although the chair had the right to go to a counted vote before declaring the result (RONR p.52, l.24; p.281, l.29; p.285, l.15; p.401, l.34; p.559, l.19), does he have the right to do so afterward on his own initiative, as in this scenario? Can a point of order be raised that at this point only a majority vote can order a counted vote? - Just curious
  4. RONR p. 356, l. 5 ff says: "If an officer, in reporting, makes a recommendation, he should not himself move its implementation, but such a motion can be made by another member as soon as the officer has concluded his report." 1. Does it need a second, since there obviously is a second member (the officer) in favor of the motion made by another member? 2. If it does need a second, can the reporting officer second it? 3. Why is this "should not" rule in RONR? Thanks for any feedback! -- Paul McClintock
  5. Need second for officer recommendation?

    Thanks! That's helpful.
  6. RONR, page 356, lines 5-8 states: "If an officer, in reporting, makes a recommendation, he should not himself move its implementation, but such a motion can be made by another member as soon as the officer has concluded his report." After another member makes the motion, does it need a second? I think not, since the recommendation from the officer already ensures that a second member wishes for the motion to be considered, assuming that the officer is a member. But I wonder if there are other opinions and the reasoning for them.
  7. "In order that there may be no interference with the assembly's having the benefit of its committees' matured judgment, motions to close or limit debate are not allowed in committees" (RONR 11th ed., p. 500, ll. 18-21). Q1: Can this rule be suspended? Q2a: If not, by what cited rule / principle, on pp. 263-264, or elsewhere? Q2b: If it can be suspended, does the p. 261, l. 15 rule ("no rule protecting a minority of a particular size can be suspended in the face of a negative vote as large as the minority protected by the rule") cause Suspend to require at least one more vote than two-thirds? I lean toward the notion that it cannot be suspended, because the group "protected" is the assembly, rather than some subset of the committee (whether present or absent). And even if there was no objection to "suspend the rules and close debate" (for instance), I'd think that it would not be in order, but that the chair could appropriately say something like, "Although the rules may not be suspended to close debate, the fact that there is no objection to doing so indicates that no one else is seeking to debate, thus we will proceed to putting the motion to a vote." Or am I missing something?
  8. Motion to consider motion outside object - debatable?

    Sorry I didn't sign in before posting just now. I don't see how to change the post from Guest to me.
  9. Bylaws allow resolutions to be submitted late with a two-thirds vote to permit consideration. I don't find in RONR a general rule that motions on consideration are not debatable. Objection to consideration is not debatable per RONR, but I did not see debatability addressed for the motion to allow consideration of a motion outside the object of the society. Are there any citations for either the general question above or the title question?
  10. Do qualifications for officers apply to pro tem officers?

    Very helpful. Thanks!
  11. The default in RONR is that there are no qualifications for officers (RONR, 11th ed, p. 447, l. 16ff). But many organizations' bylaws do have some qualifications, such as you have to be a member, or you have to have been a member for X amount of time. (A) In such cases, can a person who does not meet those qualifications be elected to be a pro tem officer for the meeting? (B) If the answer is NO, then does that prevent an assembly from allowing a professional parliamentarian preside, if the person does not meet the qualification? (C) If the answer it NO to (A), if bylaws require officers to be board members, can a membership meeting elect a non-board member to be a pro tem officer?
  12. This came up at my NAP unit meeting yesterday. I couldn't think of an answer from RONR. I'll generalize the situation. A local unit of a national organization elects (let's say) 2 delegates to the national convention. Under RONR, "the delegate has the duty...to be prepared on returning from the convention to present to his unit an information report of what transpired" (p. 605, l. 23ff). The unit meets monthly and follows the RONR standard order of business ("MRS SUN"). Under what category of business do the delegates report? The question expands to: a. should the delegate be considered and officer, and report under Reports of Officers? b. should the delegation be considered a special committee, and report under Special Committee Reports? c. should the delegate report be considered a special order, reported under Special Orders? d. should the delegate report simply come under New Business? Furthermore, is it a duty of each delegate to report, or can they (should they?) file a joint report that they choose between them as to which will present it if oral, but both sign if written? Just curious. Not a matter of grave concern.
  13. Suppose a society adopts RONR as its PA in its bylaws, and has a quorum of 5. Over time the membership drops to 4 with no change to the quorum requirement. At a meeting with all 4 members attending, can they suspend the rules for quorum and transact business? It appears to me that the new language in RONR 11th edition, p. 263, l. 20 through p. 264, l. 5 along with its footnote would allow this, so long as the body meeting has authority to amend its quorum requirement when it has a quorum (and meets whatever other procedural rules are prescribed for amending the quorum). Also, is this a change in rule from the 10th edition, or was it arguably allowed under the 10th edition but simply not stated?
  14. Latest Crazyness: Must say "Yes", not "Aye"

    See it online at https://sites.google.com/site/meetingtips/mcclintock-s-articles-and-handouts listed as HistoryofAyeandNo.pdf.
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