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Past President resigns


Guest Pam

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If the past president resigns, does the President appoint anyone or does the previous president become the past president? Or, do we leave the position open?

You'll have to inspect your own bylaws to determine the procedure, if any, for filling such a vacancy. At the same time, you may want to consider removing the office of Past President, for the reasons that you're facing right now.

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I did check. There is nothing. I was very surprised. I have made a note for our bylaws committee to discuss the removal of this position. But, I still have to deal with it for the coming year. I just checked RR and it is very weak in resignation discussion. Guess we are on our own.

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If the past president resigns, does the President appoint anyone or does the previous president become the past president? Or, do we leave the position open?

If your bylaws say, for example, that the immediate past president is (ex officio) a member of the board, then as long as he's the immediate past president he's a member of the board. He could only "resign" from the board if he stopped being the immediate past president and that will only happen when the current president leaves office (for whatever reason).

In other words, he can't, on his own, stop being the immediate past president. That's simply an historical fact.

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Well, one trouble with an IPP position, presuming it's listed in your bylaws, is that if someone resigns* from the office itself, there is nobody else on the planet eligible to fill the vacancy. Depending on the responsibilities of the position, if any, that might be just fine.

__________

* I think it's clearly possible to resign (request to be excused) from the office of Immediate Past President, even if one remains the most recent past President as a matter of historical fact.

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I think it's clearly possible to resign (request to be excused) from the office of Immediate Past President, even if one remains the most recent past President as a matter of historical fact.

If the bylaws put you (as immediate past president) on the board, I don't see how anything short of amending the bylaws can remove you. You can be told you don't have to show up (i.e. "excused") but you didn't have to show up anyway. And, as a member, you'll still be a factor in the quorum requirement (and any votes which require a percentage of the entire membership of the board).

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it seems that "Past President" or "Immediate Past President" (barring something in the Bylaws) is one of those few "offices" or "positions" from which one can not be removed from or resign from. You either are one or you are not one, depending on external situations. It seems to me that the only way to "remove" an Immediate Past President is if another individual becomes the President, then the former President becomes the Immediate Past President.

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it seems that "Past President" or "Immediate Past President" (barring something in the Bylaws) is one of those few "offices" or "positions" from which one can not be removed from or resign from. You either are one or you are not one, depending on external situations. It seems to me that the only way to "remove" an Immediate Past President is if another individual becomes the President, then the former President becomes the Immediate Past President.

Don't confuse the name of the office with the office. While the name is fairly self explanatory, the parameters of the office must be prescribed in some form, and they need not be consistent with any presumptions made about the name of the office.

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Well, we don't really know what Guest_Pam's bylaws say about the position at all. And she made no mention of it being a board position, ex officio or otherwise. We can assume this, that and the other, but with the facts given so far, all we have so far is that a former president doesn't want to be one anymore.

Guest_Pam --- conundrum aside, has your question been answered? Or would you care to enlighten us a bit more?

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And she made no mention of it being a board position, ex officio or otherwise.

I understand that; it was offered as an example. But the principle is the same even if the bylaws only say that immediate past president shall be the Immediate Past President. He can be excused from all the duties in the world but it won't stop him from being the immediate past president and, therefore, the Immediate Past President.

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I understand that; it was offered as an example. But the principle is the same even if the bylaws only say that immediate past president shall be the Immediate Past President. He can be excused from all the duties in the world but it won't stop him from being the immediate past president and, therefore, the Immediate Past President.

I Agree.

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And just for completeness sake....

In my personal view, setting up an "official" Immediate Past President (IPP) position is not a particularly good idea. The most telling argument is the real possibility of a close and bitter race for the presidency, with the current president running (for a second term) against an "outsider". And the outsider - the "reform candidate", perhaps - wins but is still stuck with the thorn of the IPP on the Board in a position to snipe at the new president. And perhaps attempt to undermine the new president's plans.

If the erstwhile president is a "good guy" the new president can (usually, depending on the bylaws) appoint him to a pre-existing committee - or even have him chair one, which might put him on the Board - as the new president sees fit. That way the IPP's experience and value can be put to good use, when needed, without the danger of setting up an adversarial situation which would require a bylaw amendment to get out of.

Here's some more reasons

1) The President resigns and wants nothing to do with the organization.

2) The President simply doesn't run for election again because he's had enough, and never shows up at a board meeting.

3) The President is booted out of office for being incompetent, or for something more nefarious.

4) The President dies.

5) The President resigns and moves (wants to help but isn't around).

6) Even worse is the bylaw assignment of the IPP to chair a committee - such as nominating. Then he dies/quits/leaves town, &c. You are then stuck with an unfillable (by definition) vacancy.

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I have no argument with those who hold the office of IPP in low esteem. I think it's a terrible idea. But, given that the bylaws specify such an office:

I think it's silly to suggest that a resignation cannot be submitted and accepted, or that doing so would fail to vacate the office, as it would with any other office.

I agree that filling the resulting vacancy would be problematic to say the least, but I find no support for the notion that the person would continue to count toward the quorum requirement if his resignation had been duly accepted and he was, therefore, relieved of all duties in connection with his (former) office.

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This is from our bylaws:

ARTICLE VI - BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Section 1. Members.

The Board of Directors shall consist of the elected officers (4), the three (3) elected Trustees, the immediate past president, and the appointed chairmen of standing committees (12). The Vice-President and Trustees may also be assigned committee chairs.

I agree that historically he is the IPP. However, he no longer wants to participate on our board, so we will not include him in future discussions, etc.

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This is from our bylaws:

ARTICLE VI - BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Section 1. Members.

The Board of Directors shall consist of the elected officers (4), the three (3) elected Trustees, the immediate past president, and the appointed chairmen of standing committees (12). The Vice-President and Trustees may also be assigned committee chairs.

I agree that historically he is the IPP. However, he no longer wants to participate on our board, so we will not include him in future discussions, etc.

As a general rule, I largely agree with Mr. Novosielski and you can read this thread for my reasoning so I don't have to type it all again.

Whether that general rule applies to this particular organization in this particular circumstance, however, is not something we can determine. It is ultimately up to your organization to interpret its own Bylaws. See RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 588-591 for some Principles of Interpretation.

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I agree that historically he is the IPP. However, he no longer wants to participate on our board, so we will not include him in future discussions, etc.

Mr. Novosielski's and Mr. Martin's opinions notwithstanding, he's still the immediate past president and, therefore and per your bylaws, he's still a member of your board (as much a member, we like to say, as any other member). However, with such a large board (as many as twenty?), the absence of one member is unlikely to affect the presence of a quorum. Then again, it might.

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On this forum, we have members who don't want to be members anymore, and they simply donned disguises and became nonmembers.

Well, it's not much of a disguise, is it. But the question of whether a member can be a guest, or vice versa, is an interesting one. Perhaps another thread?

68eBfa

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I agree that historically he is the IPP. However, he no longer wants to participate on our board, so we will not include him in future discussions, etc.

Just to throw a wrinkle into the situation, I will note that a call of a meeting would not be valid if all members aren't notified, which would include members who don't want to serve but can't be gotten rid of.

If you really want to have a past president position, I've seen suggested on here before something along the lines of "the most recent past president willing and able to serve" replacing "the immediate past president" in the bylaws.

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If you really want to have a past president position, I've seen suggested on here before something along the lines of "the most recent past president willing and able to serve" replacing "the immediate past president" in the bylaws.

I think adding more words is just putting lipstick on a pig. Who gets to say whether a particular past president is "able" or not? What if one is more able than another? What is if the most recent past president is both willing and able but he was kicked out of office for malfeasance?

Forget the lipstick; get rid of the pig.

If you want the input of a past president, invite him to meetings.

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If you want the input of a past president, invite him to meetings.

Yes, but what if they want his vote as well? Not sure why they would, just posing the question.

I'm still not convinced, due to the language of the bylaw, that he can resign from a (board) position to which he was neither elected nor appointed. Fortunately (for me) that's not a problem I need to see resolved. sMargaret does make the interesting point that, until Guest_Pam's organization settles this, the IPP is still a member and must, at the very least, still receive any required notices at the risk of creating a 251(d/e) breach. Let him choose to ignore them all he wants, but at least follow the rules. For now.

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