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Disciplinary action steps?


Big Ed

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In April I was attending a board meeting (I am not a board member or officer) and was asked to leave by the board chairman as soon as he started the meeting, he said there was sensitive board business they needed to discuss. I already knew they had an issue with me. Fast foward to a few days ago, and I recieved a letter from the board chairman telling me my status has been changed from member in good standing to member in poor standing and I am on probation for a year. I have not attended any board meetings in the meantime and was not asked to do so, nor has the President or board chairman talked to me regarding the matter. 

 

I've talked to some longtime members that were not involved in this and they say the board is out of line. One said the process is supposed to be.

 

Board discusses the matter in private.

 

Board calls the person to the next board meeting to let him/her know what the board has a problem with, and has the person do a rebuttal.

 

If the board still has an issue, the person is then called asside by board chairman or president and given a warning.

 

If behavior happens again, the board then sends out a letter changing membership status.

 

 

If this is the case, the board skipped three steps. 

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I've talked to some longtime members that were not involved in this and they say the board is out of line. One said the process is supposed to be.

 

Board discusses the matter in private.

 

Board calls the person to the next board meeting to let him/her know what the board has a problem with, and has the person do a rebuttal.

 

If the board still has an issue, the person is then called asside by board chairman or president and given a warning.

 

If behavior happens again, the board then sends out a letter changing membership status.

 

If this is the case, the board skipped three steps. 

 

If your bylaws have their own rules for discipline, check your bylaws to see what that process involves.

 

If your bylaws are silent on discipline, the board doesn't have the authority to discipline members. By default, that power rests with the general membership. See RONR, 11th ed., Section 63 for the lengthy disciplinary procedure in RONR.

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If the board still has an issue, the person is then called aside by board chairman or president and given a warning.

 

The odds are that whoever told you this has no idea what he's talking about.

 

In any event, take Mr. Martin's advice and read your bylaws. Don't believe what "some members" or "one member" tells you.

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And as a member, why do you not write the Board and ask permission to appear at a forthcoming Board meeting to discuss the change in your standing as a member?

Actually they invited me to come to the next meeting to discuss that. My position is that they put the cart before the horse, and if they knew what was going on they wouldn't be taking this action.

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So you're saying there are no standard procedures requiring the board to hear the accused persons side of the story or let that person hear what the allegations are?

 

If your bylaws have their own procedure for discipline, the standard procedures are irrelevant, since the procedure in your bylaws takes precedence.

 

The standard procedures in RONR indeed involve hearing the accused person's side of the story and letting that person hear what the allegations are. They also involve a lot of other stuff. But the board has no part in those procedures. Under RONR, disciplinary procedures rest with the general membership.

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Section 4.Conduct of members.

     Part A. All members must conduct themselves in accordance with these by-laws, the Adopt-A-Trail agreements between the Forest Service and this club, and other related rules or regulations pertaining to the safe use of four wheel drive vehicles and their impact on the land.

 

     Part B. All members must conduct themselves in a respectable and orderly fashion whether in or out of club activities. Any member disgracing himself/herself in the public eye will be immediately subject to expulsion from this club.

 

     Part C. No member of this club may drive or ride in any 4WD vehicle upon any closed 4WD route, if it is not on official club business. Official club business shall include any Forest Service approved activities. Any member in violation of this section shall cause the matter to be brought before the board of directors for review.

 

     Part D. The first violation of this section shall cause that member to lose his/her status as a "member in good standing" with this club for a period of one year, a probation, as determined by the board of directors upon review of the violation. During this time a member of such status shall not hold office nor participate in any trail reconnaissance teams. Upon successful completion of the time, the board of directors shall review the matter and reinstate that members status as a "member in good standing". 

 

     Part E. Resource damage or property damage resulting from a violation of this section by any member or a second violation during a probationary time period may subject them to immediate expulsion from the club.

 

     Part F. Complaints for expulsion shall bring the matter before the board chairman to bring the matter to the floor of the next general membership meeting. A secret two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the members present, a quorum being present and voting, in favor of expulsion shall expell that member from the club.

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     Part D. The first violation of this section shall cause that member to lose his/her status as a "member in good standing" with this club for a period of one year, a probation, as determined by the board of directors upon review of the violation.

 

It's ultimately up to your organization to interpret its own bylaws, but I don't see anything which supports the claims that members have made about your organization's disciplinary procedures.

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It's ultimately up to your organization to interpret its own bylaws, but I don't see anything which supports the claims that members have made about your organization's disciplinary procedures.

So maybe past boards have chosen to do what the long time members have said, but none of the boards are required to do so? Some of our senior people are planning on going to the next board meeting and tell them they are out of line, both that they are over reacting, and that my side of the story should have been heard.

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What are my options if I want to challenge this? I'm thinking if the board is willing to do this without hearing from all sides, talking to them will get me nowhere. I'm leaning towards bringing this up at a general meeting, as I can't see the general membership backing them up.

 

I'm a veteran with a head injury, and sometimes have difficulty concentrating or splitting my attention. The board seems to be labeling this as discourteous behavior, that is the reason given "repeated discourteous behavior". Other members that know my situation think this whole thing is ridiculous, and are willing to say so. However I don't see this ending without a fight, as some on the board also know my situation.

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I'm leaning towards bringing this up at a general meeting

 

That would seem to be your best recourse at this time. But don't forget to line up as much support as you can in advance of the meeting. And make sure the members who support you will attend.. In the end it comes down to who has the most votes.

 

And since you're currently on probation and not a member in good standing, you might have to get another member to, in effect, represent you.

 

See also Official Interpretations 2006-12 and 2006-13. And check your bylaws carefully to see if the board's authority in this instance is exclusive or not.

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What are my options if I want to challenge this?

 

You could raise a Point of Order (followed by an Appeal). You could try to amend the bylaws. You could try to get different board members. See FAQ #20 for the last one.

 

As Edgar suggested, it would also be possible to instruct the board, unless the bylaws grant the board exclusive authority in this area.

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You could raise a Point of Order (followed by an Appeal). You could try to amend the bylaws. You could try to get different board members. See FAQ #20 for the last one.

 

As Edgar suggested, it would also be possible to amend or rescind the board's action, unless the bylaws grant the board exclusive authority in this area.

I'm not familiar with Point of Order (followed by an appeal). This hasn't happened in meetings before. The bylaws do say that if anything is not covered in the bylaws, we then follow Roberts Rules of Order(I'm paraphrasing here). I would have to read up on ammending the bylaws, can't remember right now. As for getting different board members, the bylaws do allow for recall. The bylaws do not say wether or not the board has exclusive authority. Our board chairman is not elected, the bylaws say the past president becomes board chairman, is he still a director? If so that means he can be recalled too, right?  

 

Section 1. To instigate recall procedures shall require a majority vote at a membership meeting and then be publicized in the club newsletter a full 30 days in advance of the recall election. Any officer or member of the club may be recalled by a secret two-thirds (2/3) vote, for recall, of the membership meeting. The recall vote shall be taken at the next membership meeting following proper notification.

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That would seem to be your best recourse at this time. But don't forget to line up as much support as you can in advance of the meeting. And make sure the members who support you will attend.. In the end it comes down to who has the most votes.

 

And since you're currently on probation and not a member in good standing, you might have to get another member to, in effect, represent you.

 

See also Official Interpretations 2006-12 and 2006-13. And check your bylaws carefully to see if the board's authority in this instance is exclusive or not.

I have called (or talked to in person) many members already, all of them have a problem with what the board has done(especially deciding this without hearing from me). The board has only heard from the person who thinks I should be in trouble, some of them may change their position once they hear more. And, this is the reason I think the board chairman is the one who needs to go. He's the one who conducted the procedures without my input, even after I told him "If I'm being accused of something, I need to be there to defend myself".

 

The only things the bylaws say a member in poor standing cannot do is vote, and hold office. You are saying I can't bring things up in meetings, or represent myself either?

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I read the official interpretation Edgar linked, I'm learning a lot here. The board seems to think they are all powerful, this is making it clear they are not. I thought my only recourse was recall, but now I see the membership can simply reverse their decision. Will I need someone else to initiate the procedure since I am a member in poor standing?

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I'm not familiar with Point of Order (followed by an appeal). This hasn't happened in meetings before.

 

A Point of Order is used to bring attention to a violation of the rules. The chair rules on the point. If a member disagrees with the chair's ruling, he can move to Appeal from the chair's decision, and if seconded, that puts the question before the assembly. A majority vote is required to overturn the chair's ruling.

 

In most cases, a Point of Order must be raised promptly in order to be timely, but some violations are so egregious that they constitute a continuing breach. I do not feel there has been a violation here (let alone a continuing breach), but as I noted, it is ultimately up to the organization to interpret its bylaws. See RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 588-591 for some Principles of Interpretation.

 

The bylaws do not say wether or not the board has exclusive authority.

 

The bylaws rarely use the exact phrase "exclusive authority." It's trickier than that.

 

Our board chairman is not elected, the bylaws say the past president becomes board chairman, is he still a director? If so that means he can be recalled too, right?  

 

Section 1. To instigate recall procedures shall require a majority vote at a membership meeting and then be publicized in the club newsletter a full 30 days in advance of the recall election. Any officer or member of the club may be recalled by a secret two-thirds (2/3) vote, for recall, of the membership meeting. The recall vote shall be taken at the next membership meeting following proper notification.

 

It's ultimately up to your organization to interpret its own bylaws... but it's uncertain whether the Past President can be removed from the board if he automatically has a seat on the board (which we do not recommend). A similar issue (whether the Past President can resign) is discussed here, here, and here.

 

The only things the bylaws say a member in poor standing cannot do is vote, and hold office. You are saying I can't bring things up in meetings, or represent myself either?

 

If your bylaws have their own definition of what it means to not be in good standing (which is an excellent definition to have), that definition is controlling.

 

I read the official interpretation Edgar linked, I'm learning a lot here. The board seems to think they are all powerful, this is making it clear they are not. I thought my only recourse was recall, but now I see the membership can simply reverse their decision.

 

Well, slow down a bit. OI 2006-13 applies in cases when a the bylaws grant the board "full power and authority over the affairs of the Society between meetings of the membership." It doesn't necessarily apply in cases when the bylaws grant the board authority in a specific area.

 

The membership could still order the board to put you back in good standing, unless the board has exclusive authority in this area. As noted, it's ultimately up to your organization to interpret its own bylaws, but based on the information provided, I don't think it would be unreasonable to suggest that the board does have exclusive authority in this area (with the exception of expelling a member).

 

Will I need someone else to initiate the procedure since I am a member in poor standing?

 

If it is indeed correct that your bylaws provide that members in poor standing only lose the right to vote and hold office, no, I guess not.

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If the bylaws only list those two things a member in poor standing loses, then that takes precedence over RONR?

 

Yes.

 

So when you say "The membership could still order the board to put you back in good standing". What procedure would be used to do this?

 

"I move to order the board to put Mr. X back in good standing." I'd say it would be handled like any other main motion. But I'd read the rest of that paragraph again before you get too excited.

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... If your bylaws have their own definition of what it means to not be in good standing (which is an excellent definition to have), that definition is controlling....

The membership could still order the board to put you back in good standing, unless the board has exclusive authority in this area. As noted, it's ultimately up to your organization to interpret its own bylaws, but based on the information provided, I don't think it would be unreasonable to suggest that the board does have exclusive authority in this area (with the exception of expelling a member)....

If it is indeed correct that your bylaws provide that members in poor standing only lose the right to vote and hold office, no, I guess not.

Josh, look at this, from Post 9: "Part D. The first violation of this section shall cause that member to lose his/her status as a "member in good standing" with this club for a period of one year, a probation, as determined by the board of directors upon review of the violation. During this time a member of such status shall not hold office nor participate in any trail reconnaissance teams."

I submit that this, in turn, can reasonably interpreted to mean that the loss of good standing entails, and entails only, no office-holding or trail-reconnaissance-teaming. We really need to back off from helping interpret these bylaws, especially since demonstrably some of them are gibberish and since some of what we have already seen are contradictory.

Big Ed, make sure that your friends don't just agree with you on the phone, they need to know to show up. MInd what Guest_Edgar says. I apologize for not replying to all the particulars that stand out to me; there are only 168 hours in a day.

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Josh, look at this, from Post 9: "Part D. The first violation of this section shall cause that member to lose his/her status as a "member in good standing" with this club for a period of one year, a probation, as determined by the board of directors upon review of the violation. During this time a member of such status shall not hold office nor participate in any trail reconnaissance teams."

I submit that this, in turn, can reasonably interpreted to mean that the loss of good standing entails, and entails only, no office-holding or trail-reconnaissance-teaming.

 

Yes, I think that would be a reasonable interpretation, assuming the bylaws say nothing else on the subject.

 

We really need to back off from helping interpret these bylaws, especially since demonstrably some of them are gibberish and since some of what we have already seen are contradictory.

 

This point is very well taken.

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it's uncertain whether the Past President can be removed from the board if he automatically has a seat on the board (which we do not recommend).

So the question is "Is the board chairman a director?".

 

If so I could argue that the bylaws do allow for his removal, they do say "All directors and officers may be recalled".

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