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krishna Reddy

Question on the Wbster 3rd Roberts rules VS RONR 11th edition

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I have both books one from RONR 11th edition and the 3rd edition of Websters RONR. I find the information below very useful. I could only find few points similar in the 11th edition of RONR>  in our religious organization where we have constitution separate from bylaws. The board can amend the bylaws. However, they made few bylaws that are not in conformity with the constitution articles. Our C & BL committee recommended the board to have the bylaws approved y the assembly. One member is contesting that Board had the authority and assemble does not have authority. Your thoughts please!

WHERE DOES IT SAY WE CAN’T DO IT?   Organizations today are faced with many problems. One of the biggest problems is officers or members trying to do something that is not provided for in the governing documents. They justify their actions by the question, “Where does it say we can’t do it?” A very important point concerning governing documents is that they are written in the positive. They define what officers, members and committees can do, not what they can’t do. By assigning duties, setting dates of meetings and previous notice, specifying nominating and election procedures, and other bylaw requirements, the governing documents are limiting action. The members must act within the boundaries set by their adopted rules. If something is not mentioned in the bylaws or parliamentary authority, they cannot do it unless they change their governing documents. So when there is a question whether something can be done, the question to be answered is: “Where does it say we can do it?” Answer this and the problem will be resolved in the correct way.

 

Robert McConnell Productions. Webster's New World Robert's Rules of Order Simplified and Applied, Third Edition (p. 299). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.

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22 minutes ago, krishna Reddy said:

Robert McConnell Productions. Webster's New World Robert's Rules of Order Simplified and Applied, Third Edition (p. 299). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.

I suggest not using this book since it contains numerous errors.

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I posed the same to Webster 3ed edition. The content is important. Do you agree with the content I posed whether the assembly has higher authority and whether the board can exceed their authority over the assembly.

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10 minutes ago, krishna Reddy said:

The question I asked is not which book is better. The content is the issue. Can you comment on the content?

Mr. Honemann's comment on the content is exactly correct.

14 minutes ago, krishna Reddy said:

I posed the same to Webster 3ed edition. The content is important. Do you agree with the content I posed whether the assembly has higher authority and whether the board can exceed their authority over the assembly.

RONR (11th ed.), pp. 481-489 is a much better read and answers your question.

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 Thank you for your reply. It answers my question. The assembly has the highest authority over the board and can alter the board's  actions as needed. The Webster RONR is easy to read and follow. There is no need for our editorial comment. See below. Their book is also very popular. The Third Edition of "Robert's Rules of Order: Simplified & Applied.” Since 1998 when the First Edition was published, it has been one of the most popular books on Robert's Rules of Order sold worldwide.

Robert McConnell Productions is proud to announce the publication of our book, the Third Edition of "Robert's Rules of Order: Simplified & Applied.” Since 1998 when the First Edition was published, it has been one of the most popular books on Robert's Rules of Order sold worldwide.

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3 minutes ago, krishna Reddy said:

 Thank you for your reply. It answers my question. The assembly has the highest authority over the board and can alter the board's  actions as needed. The Webster RONR is easy to read and follow. There is no need for our editorial comment. See below. Their book is also very popular. The Third Edition of "Robert's Rules of Order: Simplified & Applied.” Since 1998 when the First Edition was published, it has been one of the most popular books on Robert's Rules of Order sold worldwide.

Robert McConnell Productions is proud to announce the publication of our book, the Third Edition of "Robert's Rules of Order: Simplified & Applied.” Since 1998 when the First Edition was published, it has been one of the most popular books on Robert's Rules of Order sold worldwide.

Surely you jest.

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22 hours ago, krishna Reddy said:

 Thank you for your reply. It answers my question. The assembly has the highest authority over the board and can alter the board's  actions as needed. The Webster RONR is easy to read and follow. There is no need for our editorial comment. See below. Their book is also very popular. The Third Edition of "Robert's Rules of Order: Simplified & Applied.” Since 1998 when the First Edition was published, it has been one of the most popular books on Robert's Rules of Order sold worldwide.

Robert McConnell Productions is proud to announce the publication of our book, the Third Edition of "Robert's Rules of Order: Simplified & Applied.” Since 1998 when the First Edition was published, it has been one of the most popular books on Robert's Rules of Order sold worldwide.

This is all very well and good, but it must be understood that Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 11th edition is the only definitive, authoritative work on Robert's Rules of Order. It is THE book that your organization has adopted if your bylaws specify Robert's Rules of Order as its parliamentary authority. As a consequence, what is written there takes presence over any other text on the subject if there is a conflict.

Popularity and readability aside, "Robert's Rules of Order Simplified & Applied" is a wholly different book and contains much information which is inaccurate. I do not advise using it. If you need a book which is easy to read and follow, I would first suggest Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief, 2nd edition, which is written by the same authorship team as Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, and there should therefore not be any conflicts with the larger work.

If you wish to use a third party guide in addition to the official texts, there are other works which are still easy to read, and yet are written with a much greater degree of accuracy. I can personally recommend Robert's Rules for Dummies, 3rd edition. While I have not personally read The Complete Idiot's Guide to Robert's Rules, I hear good things about it. Both books are written by well-respected parliamentarians.

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I agree completely with the comments by Josh Martin and also recommend the two books he recommended as supplements to help you understand RONR. 

Keep in mind that neither book is a substitute or replacement for RONR.

RONR In Brief is a condensed version of RONR which is written in easy to understand language by the same authorship team as RONR and contains the fundamental information most often needed in order to participate in meetings of deliberative assemblies.

Robert's Rules For Dummies is an excellent book about RONR which is very accurate and can be a tremendous aid in understanding some of the more complex provisions of RONR.

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krishna Reddy,

You failed to post the METHOD OF AMENDMENT of your constitution & bylaws.

That is where you find the authority, or lack of authority, regarding who gets to amend what.

Q. Are your constitution & bylaws silent regarding a method of amendment? --

E.g., is notice required?

E.g., is a vote of a quantity greater than a majority vote required? Etc.

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On 5/19/2017 at 11:27 AM, krishna Reddy said:

I have both books one from RONR 11th edition and the 3rd edition of Websters RONR. I find the information below very useful. I could only find few points similar in the 11th edition of RONR>  in our religious organization where we have constitution separate from bylaws. The board can amend the bylaws. However, they made few bylaws that are not in conformity with the constitution articles. Our C & BL committee recommended the board to have the bylaws approved y the assembly. One member is contesting that Board had the authority and assemble does not have authority. Your thoughts please!

WHERE DOES IT SAY WE CAN’T DO IT?   Organizations today are faced with many problems. One of the biggest problems is officers or members trying to do something that is not provided for in the governing documents. They justify their actions by the question, “Where does it say we can’t do it?” A very important point concerning governing documents is that they are written in the positive. They define what officers, members and committees can do, not what they can’t do. By assigning duties, setting dates of meetings and previous notice, specifying nominating and election procedures, and other bylaw requirements, the governing documents are limiting action. The members must act within the boundaries set by their adopted rules. If something is not mentioned in the bylaws or parliamentary authority, they cannot do it unless they change their governing documents. So when there is a question whether something can be done, the question to be answered is: “Where does it say we can do it?” Answer this and the problem will be resolved in the correct way.

 

Robert McConnell Productions. Webster's New World Robert's Rules of Order Simplified and Applied, Third Edition (p. 299). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.

My thoughts are that this misstates the general parliamentary law, at least as worded.

An assembly would need a specific requirement in the bylaws to hold a picnic or take a position on some issue, if this claim was correct.  Generally, an assembly can do anything that is not prohibited, at least by implication, in its bylaws. 

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On 5/19/2017 at 8:27 AM, krishna Reddy said:

The board can amend the bylaws.…  One member is contesting that Board had the authority and assemble does not have authority.

Your governing documents will tell you who has the authority to amend the bylaws. If they don't say that the board has exclusive authority, then the assembly may amend them as well. In fact, any decision by the board on a matter over which it does not have exclusive authority, according to your rules, may be overturned by the assembly. Any dispute about the interpretation of your bylaws should be settled in a meeting of the assembly by raising a point of order and/or appealing the ruling of the chair.

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