Changing a delegate count

[Guest Palefarmer]

I do volunteer work for a youth fraternity. State officers are elected at a Caucus convened at an annual state convention. On the first day, a delegate count is obtained by doing a roll call and taking down the names of the delegates. At that time, the delegate count is set and the number to reach a majority vote is recorded. After nominations and speeches by candidates, the Caucus is called to recess until the following morning. In the morning, the Caucus is resumed with a by-name roll call of all of the delegates that were recorded the day before. Any delegates who are missing do not vote, and anyone who is not recorded as a delegate the day before is not allowed to be a delegate on the second day.

Now, this year, on the second day of the Caucus, a delegate was added that was not included the day before. When the Chair was questioned, he stated that the extra delegate should have been counted and that they were just going to include this delegate on the second day.

The standing rules for our organization state that this Caucus shall be conducted IAW Robert's Rules. I cannot for the life of me find any section that would validate the actions of the Chair. Can anyone tell me where I can find the rules for changing delegate counts? Was the Chair in the right by proceeding as he did?

[Joshua Katz]

You state that the caucus is conducted according to RONR, but the procedure you describe varies quite a bit, leading me to believe you have some customized rules for these matters.  In RONR, for example, the number needed to reach a majority would not be recorded, since election would require a majority of those present and voting.  Similarly, in RONR, late arriving delegates are added to an adopted delegate roll by the motion to amend something previously adopted, whereas in the procedures you describe they are simply ignored.  (A somewhat minor point is that in RONR it would be improper to recess overnight.)  So I suspect we will not be of much help here, and the answer will depend on your rules, not Roberts.

[jstackpo]

1 hour ago, Joshua Katz said:

Similarly, in RONR, late arriving delegates are added to an adopted delegate roll by the motion to amend something previously adopted,

Um, no.  Late delegates are simply included on a "revised roll" that gets adopted by a majority vote whenever the Credentials Committee presents it.  See page 617, lines 15-23.

[Dan Honemann]

7 hours ago, Guest Palefarmer said:

I do volunteer work for a youth fraternity. State officers are elected at a Caucus convened at an annual state convention. On the first day, a delegate count is obtained by doing a roll call and taking down the names of the delegates. At that time, the delegate count is set and the number to reach a majority vote is recorded. After nominations and speeches by candidates, the Caucus is called to recess until the following morning. In the morning, the Caucus is resumed with a by-name roll call of all of the delegates that were recorded the day before. Any delegates who are missing do not vote, and anyone who is not recorded as a delegate the day before is not allowed to be a delegate on the second day.

Now, this year, on the second day of the Caucus, a delegate was added that was not included the day before. When the Chair was questioned, he stated that the extra delegate should have been counted and that they were just going to include this delegate on the second day.

The standing rules for our organization state that this Caucus shall be conducted IAW Robert's Rules. I cannot for the life of me find any section that would validate the actions of the Chair. Can anyone tell me where I can find the rules for changing delegate counts? Was the Chair in the right by proceeding as he did?

As previously noted, you will find the "rules for changing delegate counts" (as you have put it) on page 617 of RONR (11th ed.), but it appears that your Caucus follows its own set of rules in many respects, and not those found in RONR, since virtually nothing you describe in your initial paragraph is in accordance with Robert's Rules. So I'm afraid you're on your own.

 

 

[Guest Palefarmer]

On 7/13/2017 at 10:58 PM, Joshua Katz said:

You state that the caucus is conducted according to RONR, but the procedure you describe varies quite a bit, leading me to believe you have some customized rules for these matters.  In RONR, for example, the number needed to reach a majority would not be recorded, since election would require a majority of those present and voting.  Similarly, in RONR, late arriving delegates are added to an adopted delegate roll by the motion to amend something previously adopted, whereas in the procedures you describe they are simply ignored.  (A somewhat minor point is that in RONR it would be improper to recess overnight.)  So I suspect we will not be of much help here, and the answer will depend on your rules, not Roberts.

Actually all of this is a great deal of help. I did a poor job of explaining above, but what I should have said was "all topics not covered by the Standing Rules are governed according to Robert's Rules." Your information will help when I go back to help refine the Standing Rules. I appreciate your response.