llws1950

Board president voting.

10 posts in this topic

Still dealing with the even number board.   Some say that RRO says that a president should only vote to break a tie.  Is that true and if so, where is that located.   I am sorry, I just can't find it... not being lazy.  Nothing in the club by laws deal with this, but was told that if the by laws are silent about something then RRO takes precedent. 

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Try pages 405-406.   In general the chair should not vote unless he/she REALLY wants to and the vote will determine the outcome.  This helps to maintain his impartiality.  (Ballot votes: he votes with all others as his wishes remain unknown, technically.)

Don't forget that voting to make a tie (and defeat a motion, or cause an election to be incomplete) is an much "determining the outcome" as voting to break a tie, and thus adopt a motion.

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Note that what my colleague says is not that the president votes to "break a tie," but that the president votes (or may vote) when his or her vote will "determine the outcome." Since a tie vote means that the question does not have a majority in favor and therefore is defeated, that would be the case on a motion requiring a majority vote for adoption either when the vote is a tie and the president wants the motion to pass, or when one more vote in the negative would create a tie, and the president wants the motion to be defeated. Same on two thirds or other voting thresholds, but with different numbers of votes (create two thirds in the affirmative, or deny two thirds in the affirmative, etc). 

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Since you say you're dealing with a board, you should be aware that boards of about a dozen or so members can adopt RONR's small board rules, which allow the presiding officer of the board (usually the president) to vote along with everyone else, as well as participate fully in debate.

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2 hours ago, llws1950 said:

Still dealing with the even number board.   Some say that RRO says that a president should only vote to break a tie.  Is that true and if so, where is that located.   I am sorry, I just can't find it... not being lazy.  Nothing in the club by laws deal with this, but was told that if the by laws are silent about something then RRO takes precedent. 

You might also see FAQ No.1: 

http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#1

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17 hours ago, Bruce Lages said:

Since you say you're dealing with a board, you should be aware that boards of about a dozen or so members can adopt RONR's small board rules, which allow the presiding officer of the board (usually the president) to vote along with everyone else, as well as participate fully in debate.

I agree. In this situation, the president votes (or can vote) all the time.

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18 hours ago, llws1950 said:

Still dealing with the even number board.   Some say that RRO says that a president should only vote to break a tie.  Is that true and if so, where is that located.   I am sorry, I just can't find it... not being lazy.  Nothing in the club by laws deal with this, but was told that if the by laws are silent about something then RRO takes precedent.

An even number board does not always result in a "tie" issue because of absences or those who abstain.

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22 hours ago, Bruce Lages said:

Since you say you're dealing with a board, you should be aware that boards of about a dozen or so members can adopt RONR's small board rules, which allow the presiding officer of the board (usually the president) to vote along with everyone else, as well as participate fully in debate.

Actually...  if you read p. 487, lines 26-31, with care, it sure looks as though the "small board rules" are the default for a small board  --  it isn't optional.    So if a contentious small board (we've all been there) wished to follow the full formal ("large board") rules it would require a motion (presumably to suspend the rules) to do so.

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15 minutes ago, jstackpo said:

Actually...  if you read p. 487, lines 26-31, with care, it sure looks as though the "small board rules" are the default for a small board  --  it isn't optional.    So if a contentious small board (we've all been there) wished to follow the full formal ("large board") rules it would require a motion (presumably to suspend the rules) to do so.

I don't think it's all that simple, or that it's intended to be. No hard and fast lines are drawn, and Boards are afforded a great deal of flexibility when it comes to determining whether, and to what extent, they will follow the less formal procedures outlined on pages 487-488. This is as General Robert intended to be, as evidenced by what he said at the top of page 251 of PL.

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