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Guest Eskimodogs

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Our BOD followed our bylaws to get a slate of officers and directors for our AKC affiliated dog breed club.  A nominating committee was appointed and they presented the current BOD with a slate of candidates by the deadline dictated in our bylaws.  Essentiallly the nominating committee only nominates the number of individuals needed to fill all the officer and director positions.  This group of candidates was published to the membership per our bylaws by the correct deadline.  Our bylaws allow for additional nominations from the membership for any board position.  If there are additional nominations from the membership at large we then are required per our bylaws to hold an election which is run by an outside accounting firm.  We did have an additional nomination from the membership for one of the 4 available director positions.  Our deadline per our bylaws for receiving additional nominations from the membership is Jan. 1.  On Jan. 1 one of the candidates for director nominated by the nominating committee sent a request to the board to have her name withdrawn from the slate of candidates.  With her request to withdraw that leaves only 4 candidates for the 4 open director seats.  3 candidates were nominate by the nominating committee, and 1 was a nomination from the membership.  Our bylaws do not address the possibility of a candidate nominated by the nominating committee requesting that their name be withdrawn from the slate of candidates.  Since the nominating committee completed their charge in November that committee has been discharged.  We as the current board in charge of adhereing to our bylaws are unsure what to do at this point since this senario is not addressed in our bylaws.  We are required per our bylaws to have ballots sent to our membership by and outside accounting firm by Jan. 15, 2018.  We are unsure as to what to do at this point.  I have attached the portion of our bylaws that addresses the election process.

Bylaws Election.docx

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Send out the ballots, with all five names on it.

Here's why (my reasons, anyway...):  RONR doesn't recognize (doesn't actually mention, either) the procedure of "withdrawing a nomination".  Thus it isn't an option for a candidate to do so. Once you are nominated, that's it.  To "withdraw a nomination" would, I suppose, be equivalent to withdrawing a motion after it had been stated by the chair -- see page 295ff.  You need the permission of the assembly to do so.  In the case of a nomination/election, such a permission can only be granted effectively by the assembly voting for someone else.

The candidate, of course, can announce that he/she will not serve if elected -- this may discourage people from voting for him, but it doesn't prevent them from doing so. 

You don't mention write-in votes.  Once the ballots are authorized (automatically in your case when a 5th candidate was nominated), then write-in votes have to be allowed for (unless your bylaws expressly forbid them).   I trust the ballots have a "write-in" space.  That space could, of course, be used to vote for the withdrawn candidate should his name be improperly removed from the ballot.

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Thank you jstackpo.  Our bylaws do not allow for write in candidates.  We do have a process for nominations from the membership prior to Jan. 1 which was exercised correctly under our bylaws by 1 member prior to the Jan. 1 deadline dictated in our bylaws.  Prior to Jan. 1 any member could follow the procedures outlined in our bylaws to place their name on the ballot without having been nominated by the nominating committee.  Only 1 member opted to do so.  Hence prior to the request by one of the nominating committee nominate candidates we had 5 candidates running for 4 director seats.

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2 minutes ago, Eskimodogs said:

Thank you jstackpo.  Our bylaws do not allow for write in candidates.  We do have a process for nominations from the membership prior to Jan. 1 which was exercised correctly under our bylaws by 1 member prior to the Jan. 1 deadline dictated in our bylaws.  Prior to Jan. 1 any member could follow the procedures outlined in our bylaws to place their name on the ballot without having been nominated by the nominating committee.  Only 1 member opted to do so.  Hence prior to the request by one of the nominating committee nominate candidates we had 5 candidates running for 4 director seats.

And you still do.  

By the way your words: "Our bylaws do not allow for write in candidates" is NOT (logically) the same thing as expressly forbidding write-ins.  The ability to write-in votes is the default rule (RONR, page 435) and your bylaws have to change that rule if you wish to disallow write-in votes.

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41 minutes ago, jstackpo said:

And you still do.  

By the way your words: "Our bylaws do not allow for write in candidates" is NOT (logically) the same thing as expressly forbidding write-ins.  The ability to write-in votes is the default rule (RONR, page 435) and your bylaws have to change that rule if you wish to disallow write-in votes.

If I remember correctly (I'm not going to look again), their bylaws say that anyone not properly nominated is ineligible to serve.

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2 hours ago, jstackpo said:

Send out the ballots, with all five names on it.

Here's why (my reasons, anyway...):  RONR doesn't recognize (doesn't actually mention, either) the procedure of "withdrawing a nomination".  Thus it isn't an option for a candidate to do so. Once you are nominated, that's it.  To "withdraw a nomination" would, I suppose, be equivalent to withdrawing a motion after it had been stated by the chair -- see page 295ff.  You need the permission of the assembly to do so.  In the case of a nomination/election, such a permission can only be granted effectively by the assembly voting for someone else. . . .

 

Hmmm.  I'm afraid that I reluctantly disagree with.... or at least express serious reservations with... Dr. Stackpole's statement that a nominee may withdraw only with the permission of the assembly.  I base this opinion on two separate provisions in RONR which indicate clearly... to me, at least... that a nominee MAY in fact voluntarily withdraw as a candidate.  Nothing is said in either provision indicating that the permission of the assembly is required.  I am bolding what I see as the key statement in each section.

The  first is lines 4 - 8 on page 435, regarding nominating committees, which reads as follows:  "A nominating committee is automatically discharged when its report is formally presented to the assembly, although if one of the nominees withdraws before the election, the committee is revived and should meet immediately to agree upon another nomination if there is time."

The second provision is on page 441 at lines 1 - 8:  "Whichever one of the preceding methods of election is used, if any office remains unfilled after the first ballot, as may happen if there are more than two nominees, the balloting is repeated for that office as many times as necessary to obtain a majority vote for a single candidate. When repeated balloting for an office is necessary, individuals are never removed from candidacy on the next ballot unless they voluntarily withdraw—which they are not obligated to do. . . ."

Neither provision makes any reference to the permission of the assembly being required in order for a nominee (or candidate) to withdraw his candidacy.

As to Dr. Stackpole's analogy to withdrawing a name from nomination being equivalent to withdrawing a motion once it has been stated by the chair, I suggest that it is not a good analogy primarily because that in the case of the report of a nominating committee (as is the case here), we have no evidence that the chair has actually stated that those particular names are "in nomination".  At this point, we have only a committee report.  I submit that withdrawing from a nomination (or at least withdrawing from a nomination by a nominating committee that is only a report of a committee) is not at all equivalent to requiring the permission of the assembly to withdraw a motion once it has been stated by the chair.

There have been many discussions in this forum about whether a member may "decline" a nomination or withdraw his name from nomination, but the two provisions I quoted from RONR seem to say quite clearly that a candidate (or nominee) may, in fact, withdraw voluntarily.

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However, there is not time to reconvene the committee since we are facing a timeline of having to have the ballot to the independent accounting firm in order to have ballots mailed to the membership by Jan. 15, 2018.  So, if we do remove the name of the candidate who informed the BOD in writing that they wish to withdraw their name from the election do we simply go with the 4 candidates who were nominated in accordance with the bylaws (3 by the nominating committee and 1 by petition of 5 members in good standing as state in our bylaws)?  Since there are 4 available director seats this would mean the election is not required to go to the membership for a vote, but those 4 candidates are automatically seated.

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I'm inclined to agree with Dr. Stackpole's initial response. I do not believe that it is possible, under the circumstances described, for the the nominee to effectively withdraw her nomination. She didn't make the nomination, the Committee did. In any event, I gather she simply submitted a request to the board to have her name withdrawn, and I doubt that anything in the bylaws authorizes the board to comply with such a request. 

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1 minute ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

I'm inclined to agree with Dr. Stackpole's initial response. I do not believe that it is possible, under the circumstances described, for the the nominee to effectively withdraw her nomination. She didn't make the nomination, the Committee did. In any event, I gather she simply submitted a request to the board to have her name withdrawn, and I doubt that anything in the bylaws authorizes the board to comply with such a request. 

Then what about the provisions on pages 435 and 441?   In the case of the page 435 reference, the nomination being referred to by RONR is being made by the nominating committee, but the book clearly says a nominee in such a case may withdraw.

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22 minutes ago, Eskimodogs said:

However, there is not time to reconvene the committee since we are facing a timeline of having to have the ballot to the independent accounting firm in order to have ballots mailed to the membership by Jan. 15, 2018. . . . .

1

Do your bylaws authorize committees to meet by telephone? 

25 minutes ago, Eskimodogs said:

 . . .  So, if we do remove the name of the candidate who informed the BOD in writing that they wish to withdraw their name from the election do we simply go with the 4 candidates who were nominated in accordance with the bylaws (3 by the nominating committee and 1 by petition of 5 members in good standing as state in our bylaws)?  Since there are 4 available director seats this would mean the election is not required to go to the membership for a vote, but those 4 candidates are automatically seated.

1

That is what I think you should do, even though Mr. Honemann seems to be of a contrary opinion.  I am basing my opinion on the clear statement in RONR that a candidate nominated by a nominating committee may withdraw.  The language in RONR is clear and unambiguous.  The committee should meet again only if there is time to do so.  Perhaps that can be done by telephone or by all members agreeing to a new report as RONR permits.

But, if you decide to leave the name on the ballot, I think the membership should be made aware that the candidate has asked that his (or her) name be withdrawn.  RONR does not require that, but it seems to me to be the appropriate thing to do.  It's true that if that candidate is elected, he might well decide to go ahead and serve, but it is also true that if he will not serve if elected, then you have an incomplete election and/or a vacancy and must have a new election or follow whatever procedure is required by your bylaws for resolving an incomplete election.

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RONR says, on page 435, that “A nominating committee is automatically discharged when its report is formally presented to the assembly, although if one of the nominees withdraws before the election, the committee is revived and should meet immediately to agree upon another nomination if there is time.” I do not think that this confers upon a nominee the power to withdraw the nomination itself if she is nominated by the committee (only the bylaws can give her such extraordinary power). It simply means that she is herself withdrawing as a candidate and indicating that she will not serve if elected. If the committee is unable to meet again, or if it does meet and still decides to nominate the reluctant nominee, she remains a nominee, whether she likes it or not.

In instances in which it is not possible for the committee to meet again, its nomination stands.

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So in essence a Nominating Committee could force a member to be a nominee by nominating someone and the nominee not able to withdraw their nomination?

If this is true, then how can someone withdraw as referenced to in RONR.  Would they need to have a motion to withdraw them from the nomination list if the committee refuses to take them off?

Edited by SaintCad
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Since (p. 430) a "nomination is a proposal to fill the blank...",  and

Since (p. 432) "no second is required",  (or if you insist, since the nomination comes from a committee, no second is required)  and

Since (p. 164) the "chair repeats each name as it is proposed", thus effectively stating the question:  "Shall Daniel be elected?",

Therefore, it seems clear that once a nomination is made, the nominee can't withdraw it all by himself/herself just as with any stated motion (p. 295).

Which leaves me wondering just how, what series of steps, have to be gone through to allow a nominee to withdraw, as is clearly stated in the book (even though I didn't remember it).

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4 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

Then what about the provisions on pages 435 and 441?   In the case of the page 435 reference, the nomination being referred to by RONR is being made by the nominating committee, but the book clearly says a nominee in such a case may withdraw.

I must agree with Mr. Brown.  RONR explicitly says that a nominee (in this case nominated by the NomCom) may withdraw, presumably without seeking permission.  RONR also provides that candidates may "voluntarily withdraw" before subsequent rounds of balloting:  Nothing in the language suggests that they could not similarly withdraw before the first round.  Neither of these provisions even hint that permission of the assembly is required, as it would be for withdrawal of a motion.

Quote

When repeated balloting for an office is necessary, individuals are never removed from candidacy on the next ballot unless they voluntarily withdraw—which they are not obligated to do.*   (emphasis added)
__________
*An organization could suspend the rules, or adopt a special rule of order, so that the nominee with the fewest votes is dropped from the list of nominees for succeeding ballots in the expectation that voters will then confine their choice to the remaining nominees. Only a bylaws provision, however, could make the dropped nominee ineligible for election so as to render illegal any subsequent votes cast for that nominee. (see pp. 430–31.)

 

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17 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said:

I must agree with Mr. Brown.  RONR explicitly says that a nominee (in this case nominated by the NomCom) may withdraw, presumably without seeking permission.  

Yes, it says a nominee may withdraw; it doesn't say that he may withdraw his nomination. As I said before, he can withdraw as a candidate, and/or indicate that he will not serve if elected. 

All else aside, it should be obvious that a person cannot withdraw a nomination, or a suggestion to fill a blank, or any motion for that matter, that he, himself, did not make.

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5 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Yes, it says a nominee may withdraw; it doesn't say that he may withdraw his nomination. As I said before, he can withdraw as a candidate, and/or indicate that he will not serve if elected. 

All else aside, it should be obvious that a person cannot withdraw a nomination, or a suggestion to fill a blank, or any motion for that matter, that he, himself, did not make.

I agree that no one can withdraw a nomination he did not make.

But it's clear that a candidate can do something called "withdrawal" that can result in his name being removed from the ballot.  

That's all I'm saying.

Edited by Gary Novosielski
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If I am reading Mr. Honemann's argument correctly, he is considering the procedure discussed on p. 435 as a two-step process with independent action being taken by two separate entities - the nominee and the nominating committee. The nominee is certainly able to indicate his unwillingness to serve in office if elected (thus withdrawing as a candidate), but then it is the nominating committee that must agree to rescind their nomination of him in order to select another nominee. The original nominee does not have the right to unilaterally remove his name from the nominating committee's report, but the nominating committee does have the right to amend their report if they so desire (and if the 'sufficient time to do so' condition stipulated on p. 435 is met).

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18 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Yes, it says a nominee may withdraw; it doesn't say that he may withdraw his nomination. As I said before, he can withdraw as a candidate, and/or indicate that he will not serve if elected. 

All else aside, it should be obvious that a person cannot withdraw a nomination, or a suggestion to fill a blank, or any motion for that matter, that he, himself, did not make.

Regarding the analysis, thus far, I agree with Richard. In this particular instance, the club bylaws stated:

"The nominating committee shall previously obtain the consent of each such nominee." <reference to nominating committee edited.>

The requirement concerning obtaining the candidates consent is an issue with the bylaws, not RONR. If the candidate is permitted to withdraw his/her consent, he/she is no longer eligible for election. The committee no longer has the member's consent. Also, in this particular matter, that is, whether a candidate may withdraw his/her consent, is a concern with the bylaws, and as such, is outside of the scope of this this forum.

Edited by Steven Britton
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1 hour ago, Steven Britton said:

Regarding the analysis, thus far, I agree with Richard. In this particular instance, the club bylaws stated:

"The bylaw committee shall previously obtain the consent of each such nominee."

The requirement concerning obtaining the candidates consent is an issue with the bylaws, not RONR. If the candidate is permitted to withdraw his/her consent, he/she is no longer eligible for election. The committee no longer has the member's consent. Also, in this particular matter, that is, whether a candidate may withdraw his/her consent, is a concern with the bylaws, and as such, is outside of the scope of this this forum.

Well, the most recent discussion relates only to an understanding of what is said in RONR on page 435, lines 4-8, but what makes you think that the Nominating Committee (not the "bylaw committee") in this instance did not comply with the requirement that it "shall previously obtain the consent of each such nominee" before it completed its charge in November and was discharged?

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3 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Well, the most recent discussion relates only to an understanding of what is said in RONR on page 435, lines 4-8, but what makes you think that the Nominating Committee (not the "bylaw committee") in this instance did not comply with the requirement that it "shall previously obtain the consent of each such nominee" before it completed its charge in November and was discharged?

Dan, I never stated the nominating committee didn't comply with its duty to obtain the consent prior to reporting-please don't imply that I did. However, generally if the candidate doesn't have an ability to withdraw his/her consent after the committee presents its reports, depending on how much time intervenes, it renders RONR 11th ed. p. 435. (ll. 4-8) absurd. Also, the  parallel language regarding obtaining acceptance to nominees in RONR 11th ed. is on p. 434 (ll. 1-6) and it is silent concern candidate's withdrawing his/her consent, and does not specifically use the word consent; it states:

 It is desirable policy for the nominating committee, before making its report, to contact each person whom it wishes to nominate, in order to obtain his acceptance of nomination—that is, his assurance that he will serve in the specified office if elected. The bylaws can make such a practice mandatory.

 

Edited by Steven Britton
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9 minutes ago, Steven Britton said:

Dan, I never stated the nominating committee didn't comply with its duty to obtain the consent prior to reporting-please don't imply that I did. However, generally if the candidate doesn't have an ability to withdraw his/her consent after the committee presents its reports, depending on how much time intervenes, it renders RONR 11th ed. p. 435. (ll. 4-8) absurd. Also, the  parallel language regarding obtaining acceptance to nominees in RONR 11th ed. is on p. 434 (ll. 1-6) and it is silent concern candidate's withdrawing his/her consent, and does not specifically use the word consent; it states:

 It is desirable policy for the nominating committee, before making its report, to contact each person whom it wishes to nominate, in order to obtain his acceptance of nomination—that is, his assurance that he will serve in the specified office if elected. The bylaws can make such a practice mandatory.

 

I'm afraid that we simply disagree as to the meaning of what is said on page 435, lines 4-8, and what is said on page 434, lines 1-6, is irrelevant. 

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21 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Yes, it says a nominee may withdraw; it doesn't say that he may withdraw his nomination. As I said before, he can withdraw as a candidate, and/or indicate that he will not serve if elected. 

What exactly does it mean to “withdraw as a candidate?” Is this simply the same as a statement that the member will not serve if elected, or is there something more to this?

Edited by Josh Martin
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16 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

What exactly does it mean to “withdraw as a candidate?” Is this simply the same as a statement that the member will not serve if elected, or is there something more to this?

Yes, I think the member is simply saying that he no longer wants the job. 

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