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Guest BRUCE A D

ROBERTS RULES OF ORDER, VOTE OF ACCLAMATION

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#1'''under "voting"  "#2  if there is only one nomination a vote of acclamation is taken, if the vote is not unanimous, the position goes back to the groups for further nominations."    #2''''   "co-faciliator,   responsibilities,   'this is a 2 year commitment in office, the first year spent serving as the co-facilitator and the second year as the facilitator"  these are 2 of the most fought about items.....  i do not see how any sane person can not understand them.....    last year i was voted out of the facilitaror postion because of the bulling and intimadation by the 'ruling group'    they forced the electation of a person who had never been a co-facilitaror and never been in office in our area....     #3...  under facilitator  qualifications it states 'service experience  active for at least one year in the "na service structure""    in the four years i have been active it the na service structure she never held a office nor did she even come to any area meetings.....   this is the person that i am having to deal with not.....  i am a group reprecentive and only have one vote.... or 5 groups....   again she and the ruling group are trying to vote in someone that does not qualif for the office....   she says that we are using ronr  .... we did vote to use them but i say that untill we chang our guidelines/policy to reflect that we are to use the g/p......  if i lose the argument of a vote of acclamation i will have to fight the 2/3 vote that she is trying to jam down our throuts.....   it is clear that she does not know 4 th graid math....   as she asys that a vote of 3 yes and 2 nos passes the vote.....   that is not right as 3/5 + 0.60,  and 2/3 = 0.66666666/or 0.7.....    in order to have a majority vote there must be 4 yes not 3....

hope this is ok for you to help me

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, BRUCE A D said:

our gidelines/policy is what we have used for over 4 years as the rules that we use to goveren our meetings

Then they are probably special rules of order, and the rules you want are on pages 15-17 of RONR.

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20 hours ago, BRUCE A D said:

looking over the comments above i would like to ask if some one could tell me where in ronr it is stated that if there is a set of guidelines/police in place that ronr does not over ride them...   unless the guidelines/policy is changed to shown the  ronr change..... is it in ronr for dumines  please help as i have to present my caes before the meeting in a little over a week

I don’t have my copy of RONR for Dummies handy, but in RONR itself:

“When a society or an assembly has adopted a particular parliamentary manual—such as this book—as its authority, the rules contained in that manual are binding upon it in all cases where they are not inconsistent with the bylaws (or constitution) of the body, any of its special rules of order, or any provisions of local, state, or national law applying to the particular type of organization.” and “Special rules of order supersede any rules in the parliamentary authority with which they may conflict.” (RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 15-16)

19 hours ago, BRUCE A D said:

#3... under facilitator qualifications it states 'service experience active for at least one year in the "na service structure"" in the four years i have been active it the na service structure she never held a office nor did she even come to any area meetings..... this is the person that i am having to deal with not..... i am a group reprecentive and only have one vote.... or 5 groups.... again she and the ruling group are trying to vote in someone that does not qualif for the office....

If this person is not eligible for office, then she may not be elected even by a unanimous vote.

Edited by Josh Martin

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The rules that you use to govern the orderly conduct of  meetings are rules of order.   Special rules of order (not included in RONR) may be adopted by your organization.  If so, they take precedence over the rules in RONR, however they may not conflict with your bylaws.

Unless your bylaws provide for a different requirement, the adoption (or amendment) of special rules of order requires either (a) previous notice and a 2/3 vote or (b) a vote of a majority of the entire membership,

 

 

Edited by Gary Novosielski
clarity

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been gone for a while...     see if i get this right......     in our group we have what we call "guidelines/policy"   it is the rules that we have been using for 6 years to run our meetings........   we voted to start using ronr .....  we have not to date made any changes to our "guidelines/policy"   i say that untill we make changes we are under the standing "guidelines/policy".....    when we make changes to our "guidelines/policy"   then ronr rules will be used.....  but only after the "guidelines/policy" are changed........................

hope i have put this in clear wording     thanks for any help

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, BRUCE A D said:

been gone for a while...     see if i get this right......     in our group we have what we call "guidelines/policy"   it is the rules that we have been using for 6 years to run our meetings........   we voted to start using ronr .....  we have not to date made any changes to our "guidelines/policy"   i say that untill we make changes we are under the standing "guidelines/policy".....    when we make changes to our "guidelines/policy"   then ronr rules will be used.....  but only after the "guidelines/policy" are changed........................

hope i have put this in clear wording     thanks for any help

As best I can determine, you did get this right.

You tell us that your rule says that "if there is only one nomination a vote of acclamation* is taken, if the vote is not unanimous, the position goes back to the groups for further nominations." If this rule has not been rescinded (and you tell us that it has not been rescinded), then it overrides any rule or rules in RONR with which it may conflict.

-----------------------------------------------------

* (or perhaps "acclimation")

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Guest Mike T

Quoted from above:

"Unless your bylaws provide for a different requirement, the adoption (or amendment) of special rules of order requires either (a) previous notice and a 2/3 vote or (b) a vote of a majority of the entire membership,"

The required vote for special rules of order is confusing. We are a homeowners association and a majority of the owners voted to amend the Bylaws to require the use of Robert's Rules for all meetings. No the board wants to adopt special rules of order that change the RONR procedures for small boards, but I'm not sure that the board has the authority to change the rules the owners have put in place.

Is it a 2/3 vote of just the board, or a majority of the entire society or association membership? That's the only way this makes any sense, but I'm still not comfortable with the board being allowed to change the rules.

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Your discomfort is entirely justified  --  the board cannot, on its own, change the rules.

However, two questions:

Did the association's members actually amend the bylaws to incorporate Robert's Rules (RONR) into them with the sample bylaw provision on page 588, or something much like it?

Do the Board members realize that RONR already HAS rules built in (page 487) that are specifically for small boards?  What (new-?) rules does the board wish to propose?

Oops, that was three questions  --  sorry!

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Guest Mike T

Thanks. We did amend the Bylaws IAW the Robert's Rules requirement. They want to change a couple of the small board rules. They want every motion to be seconded, which allows them to shut down any proper motion or person they don't like without even hearing it out and simply voting it down. For a small group of nine that can really sting and cause animosity among board members. Better to allow a vote then no one can complain they were ignored. And they want no votes taken unless there is a motion, which would mean no unanimous consent or decisions made without objection like adjournments, though I'm sure they don't realize this yet.

It seems the board should not have the authority to override what the homeowners have put in place, however RONR seems to allow it. Otherwise, the two-thirds vote doesn't make sense because it is a higher requirement than a majority. It can't mean two-thirds of the entire membership OR a majority of the entire membership.

I'm going to argue that it just doesn't make sense anyway for the reasons I've stated.

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Presumably (correct me please if I am going in the wrong direction) when DHHFisherman writes "decide for themselves" that would entail the Board's adopting special rules of order (that would apply to itself only, of course) that differ from the small board rules of page 487ff.  And that would require attaining the voting thresholds of page 17 within the board membership.

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