Josh Martin Posted November 24, 2010 at 06:04 PM Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 at 06:04 PM Don't bet on it. Often, the formal procedure, by insisting that people speak without constant interruption, and stick to the subject at hand, can often be done more quickly.I think that's what she meant by "suppression." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loose Posted November 24, 2010 at 11:31 PM Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 at 11:31 PM I think that's what she meant by "suppression."No, I meant suppression as in intimidation. Harmony by means of fear makes for real short deliberations!But I know this sort of harmony will express itself eventually destructively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loose Posted November 24, 2010 at 11:33 PM Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 at 11:33 PM Then skip the chit chat. Show up when the meeting is scheduled to start and insist that it start on time. If a majority of members have agreed on a question beforehand, there's not much you can do about it. It doesn't matter that they did so just before the meeting or a week before the meeting. And if two-thirds of the members want to close debate, there's not much you can do about that either.Get more members to agree with you and the ball will be in your court.Thanks for this advice. I will see what I can do./Loose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted November 25, 2010 at 12:09 AM Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 at 12:09 AM No, I meant suppression as in intimidation. Harmony by means of fear makes for real short deliberations!But I know this sort of harmony will express itself eventually destructively.My mistake. But properly following the rules of RONR should help with that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loose Posted December 11, 2010 at 09:58 AM Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 at 09:58 AM The trouble is that either your group doesn't understand RONR's guidelines for meetings or doesn't care to follow them if they do. If you can't get them to change this, you're beating your head against a wall. Meetings are called to order by the presiding officer. You don't vote to start the meeting, because you only vote IN meetings, so that concept is silly. If the meeting is scheduled for 7pm, that's when the meeting should start, not the coffee klatch.If this is a small board (fewer than about a dozen in attendance) there's nothing wrong with the chair making motions. If not, then the chair has no business doing so.If you want to hammer out the details before 7pm in a pre-meeting unofficial non-voting gathering, that's fine. But 1) there must still be the option for further debate between motion and voting (if the motion is debatable), and 2) if you're spending all the time you would normally spend in-meeting during debate in the "pre-meeting", then there is no time savings, and in fact it sounds like you spend more time than you would if you followed the rules, especially as they relate to the debate portion.What about the rest of the "agenda"? Do you approve previous minutes? Hear reports? Address unfinished business? (just askin')Your chair needs a.) a refresher course in RONR, or b.) to be replaced. Your membership needs some education as well.But if there aren't enough disturbed by the current process and wanting to do it the right way, then step closer to that wall and start banging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loose Posted December 11, 2010 at 10:03 AM Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 at 10:03 AM Belated thanks for the clarification. Minutes are approved in the "RR" section of the meeting and New Business is allowed. I don't think there is ever any unfinished business but they always vote to adjourn even though there's no more business before us. Another issue is that we are handed an agenda and not asked to vote on it. Not sure where the agenda comes from. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted December 11, 2010 at 03:38 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 at 03:38 PM Another issue is that we are handed an agenda and not asked to vote on it. Not sure where the agenda comes from.An agenda which is not approved by the assembly is not binding, regardless of where it comes from. See FAQ #14.Of course, many assemblies have no need for an agenda at all and would do fine with the standard order of business in RONR, 10th ed., pg. 342. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loose Posted December 11, 2010 at 08:34 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2010 at 08:34 PM An agenda which is not approved by the assembly is not binding, regardless of where it comes from. See FAQ #14.Of course, many assemblies have no need for an agenda at all and would do fine with the standard order of business in RONR, 10th ed., pg. 342.Thanks for validation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loose Posted December 12, 2010 at 06:05 PM Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 at 06:05 PM It is nonsense to vote to call a meeting to order, because until it's called to order you can't vote on anything. The chair simply calls the meeting to order promptly at the appointed start time.You and anyone else has the right to discuss any debatable motion.It's no surprise that the chit-chat is counterproductive and stifling. Your bylaws specify that Robert's Rules will be followed and it is the duty of EVERY member to insist that the bylaws are followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loose Posted December 12, 2010 at 06:27 PM Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 at 06:27 PM I think it's probably just a matter of the assembly not know how efficiently a meeting can and should run. Loose, you might want to try the approach of, "why don't we try it the way the book says and see if that works any better."Belated thanks for this practical advice. I'm a newbie myself. I have joined my local PA group to learn myself the joys of an orderly meeting so I know what my goal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loose Posted December 12, 2010 at 06:41 PM Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 at 06:41 PM What more than that do you need? You must follow your bylaws.Thank you for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loose Posted December 12, 2010 at 07:01 PM Report Share Posted December 12, 2010 at 07:01 PM I guess my group needs to learn the distinction between dialogue and debate. To the uninitiated the term "discussion" implies dialogue between members. And as we are a small group, it's harder to keep modicum of formality. But we make decisions that affect 1000's of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted December 13, 2010 at 06:11 AM Report Share Posted December 13, 2010 at 06:11 AM Guest loose, Please check in again. I'd like to see what eventuates.... What's a "local PA group"?(Do you perhaps mean a Parents' Association? If so ... do you really figure to "learn myself the joys of an orderly meeting" from it? Would you similarly expect to learn proper table manners from a group of crocodiles?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loose Posted December 17, 2010 at 05:35 AM Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 at 05:35 AM Guest loose, Please check in again. I'd like to see what eventuates.... What's a "local PA group"?(Do you perhaps mean a Parents' Association? If so ... do you really figure to "learn myself the joys of an orderly meeting" from it? Would you similarly expect to learn proper table manners from a group of crocodiles?)I guess I was trying to sling the lingo. I meant parliamentarian association. Sounds like you are hard bit.:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest loose Posted December 17, 2010 at 06:30 AM Report Share Posted December 17, 2010 at 06:30 AM Well done, David.Loose, you should probably start by talking to individual members to rally support for your wild idea about doing things the right way. It sounds like the assembly needs to take back control of their meetings from the chair. If the chair is not willing to remain impartial for the good of the assembly, he's not fit to preside. You're seeing first hand how the deliberative process breaks down when you don't have a chair who protects the rules of order and the rights of members.Thanks for the validation. Scary prospect as I'm the new kid on the block. Stay tuned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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