Jump to content
The Official RONR Q & A Forums

All Activity

This stream auto-updates     

  1. Past hour
  2. The answer seems so obvious that I have to wonder why the question was even asked. The general rule in RONR is clear: “If the bylaws require the election of officers to be by ballot and there is only one nominee for an office, the ballot must nevertheless be taken for that office unless the bylaws provide for an exception in such a case. In the absence of the latter provision, members still have the right, on the ballot, to cast "write-in votes" for other eligible persons.” (11th ed., pp. 441-42) [Edited to add: I suppose the question is whether a proviso has the force of a bylaw provision, and, if not, whether the rule of the proviso can be suspended.] Is the election taking place at the annual meeting at which this bylaw revision goes into effect? Was the bylaw revision adopted already, or has it merely been proposed? Does the pre-revision version of the bylaws require a ballot vote at the annual meetings?
  3. Today
  4. An example would probably be helpful. @Tomm, have you tried looking at the example in RONR (11th ed.), p. 144, line 15 to p. 145, line 26? Here's another example. Suppose the following main motion is moved and seconded (to make things scientific-like, we'll call this main motion M0) : M0: That we purchase a new stun gun for the doorkeeper. While this motion is pending, the following primary amendment is moved and seconded: P0: To amend by adding, ‘at a cost not to exceed $200’ And while this primary amendment is pending, the following secondary amendment is moved and seconded: S: To amend the amendment by striking out ‘$200’ and inserting ‘$500’ To dispose of these motions, three votes will be taken (after any further debate at each stage). First, a vote will be taken on the secondary amendment S. If S is adopted, the effect will be to change the wording of the primary amendment. At this point, no words have yet been added to the main motion. The primary amendment will remain pending in its amended form, i.e.: P1: To amend by adding, ‘at a cost not to exceed $500’ The second vote will be on this P1, the primary amendment as amended. The vote on S did not decide the question on the primary amendment, but caused it to become P1 (the amended wording) instead of P0 (the original wording). If P1 is adopted, the effect will be to change the wording of the main motion, but once again the main motion has not been adopted. Rather, it remains pending in its amended form, i.e.: M1: That we purchase a new stun gun for the doorkeeper at a cost not to exceed $500. At this point, the assembly has still not decided whether to purchase a stun gun. The only decisions that have been made are, first, that if the amount of the purchase is to be limited, the limit will be $500. And, second, that indeed the amount of the purchase will be limited to $500 — if any purchase of a stun gun for the doorkeeper will be made. The third vote — on M1, the main motion as amended — will make that decision of whether or not to make the purchase.
  5. Thank you. That was an answer to my question.
  6. These facts are rather skimpy, but it would appear that a ballot vote will have to be taken.
  7. If a proviso related to a bylaw revision states, "The election of officers and directors at this annual meeting shall be by ballot" and there is only on nominee for a particular office, must the ballot vote be conduct or can the one nominee for this particular office be declared elected? The revised bylaws do not require the vote by ballot at the annual meetings.
  8. Mr. Mervosh beat me to the punch and said it in fewer words than I was going to use (maybe that's why he beat me), so I will simply concur.
  9. No. A quorum is the number of members who must be present and has nothing to do with how many vote on any particular motion. As long as 7 members are present when the vote is taken, a vote of 1-0 will adopt a motion.
  10. I don't know how "unusual" it would be, but it's certainly a possibility. There may be some members who would prefer that if the main motion is to be amended at all, the wording be that of the secondary amendment, so they would vote for the secondary amendment. Yet they still would prefer that the main motion not be amended at all, so they would vote against the primary motion as amended. And remember that each of the motions is debatable while it is pending, so it also is possible that some members will change their minds as a result of the debate.
  11. If a quorum is reached at a meeting and then a vote occurs where there are members abstaining, does that negate the quorum which is required for votes? Our quorum is 7 members. We had 8 in attendance and on a particular vote, 2 abstained.
  12. No, that's not right. Vote one is to approve the secondary amendment. With that vote being passed, the primary amendment is altered to include the wording of the secondary amendment, so there's no second vote needed to do that. Vote two will be to approve the primary amendment (as now altered by the secondary amendment). With vote two being passed, the main motion will be altered to include the wording of the primary amendment - again, no additional vote needed to do that. Vote three is whether to approve the main motion as altered by the wording of the primary amendment. It's important to remember that after all primary and secondary amendments have been dealt with, you still haven't decided whether to approve the main motion - you've just agreed on what the wording of that main motion will be. It still needs to be approved, or not, with its finally-agreed upon language.
  13. So if I've got this right.... Approve secondary amendment....vote one Approve changing the wording of the primary amendment to that of the secondary amendment...vote two Approve changing the wording of the main motion to that of the new primary amendment...vote three vote three ended of voting Question: would it be unusual for the primary amendment to fail considering it was approved when it was the secondary motion?
  14. Thanks to each of you for your input. The proxy/quorum problem was rendered moot, as the meeting had significant attendance and > 50% representation by proxy. The proxy representation poses a different "problem." A director canvassed the neighborhood, collecting proxies and pressuring/persuading members to approve the special assessment. Several members used the word "bully." While a member is ultimately responsible for his vote, I find the director's behavior a bit unethical. I'll re-read the bylaws and covenants to see if this activity is a violation. I doubt it.
  15. "If a motion to Reconsider that involves a main motion cannot be taken up when it is made, then as long as its suspending effect lasts it can be called up and acted upon during any regular meeting, or any special meeting called for that purpose, at any time that no question is pending and no other member has the floor." (RONR, 11th ed., p. 323, ll. 9-15. emphasis supplied.)
  16. Thank you, Rob, Josh, Gary & Richard for your responses. (Sorry I didn't follow up sooner but I never got a notification about them and saw them only when checking in here now.) Please let me clarify...I apologize for my imperfect phrasing. I said "space" and "convening" not to be literal (i.e., implying that the Board necessarily switched from one room to another) but, instead, to describe the status they found themselves in (i.e., Open Session vs. Executive Session). I believe that Josh and Gary answered what my main question was, thanks, which was, "what are the 'mechanics' of the Board entering and leaving Executive Session?", saying namely that the entering Motion happens in Open Session, and the leaving Motion happens while still in Executive Session, after which (when it passes) the Board is (poof) back in Open Session. Thank you all, again, Bram Weiser
  17. Agreeing with everyone else I will add some citations as well. First, see the definition of "member" on p. 3 ll. 1-5 and p. 648 ll. 11-19 which says nonmembers have no rights and the Chair can unilaterally throw a disruptive nonmember out of the meeting (subject to that ruling being Appealed by the members). Of course, your rules may have something to say on the subject and it sounds like members of the General Membership might have a right to attend and speak for 3 minutes but you should check those Bylaws to determine whether that is actually a right or merely a custom the Board can decide to discontinue.
  18. I think you're probably right. And if the secondary amendment was a substitute for the primary, it may indeed have seemed like they were voting on the same amendment again.
  19. It seems to me that one thing that went unmentioned is that a) we don't know anything about the listing the OP has in mind, and b) RONR doesn't have any particular rules about lists of officer that I'm aware of.
  20. Sorry for the delay responding but I re-read what I wrote and I stand corrected. You are correct.
  21. I, of course, agree with the answers above. I would add that, if I were on the board and someone not on the board tried to raise a point of order, we'd tell them to be quiet, and then, if they had a good point, I'd raise the point of order.
  22. I am guessing that this vote was to adopt the primary amendment, as amended.
  23. This loonie-toonie conversation is for the birds. Canadians aren't any dumber or smarter than U.S.ians, they're just generally better at ice hockey.
  24. No, the primary amendment, as amended by the secondary amendment, is then pending. Even if the secondary amendment is a complete substitute for the primary amendment, the primary amendment (as amended) remains pending No, it simply amends the primary amendment, which then must be voted on. Then after that, the main motion (as amended if applicable) is voted on. The sequence (omitting some of teh detail) is: Main motion moved Primary amendmenmt moved Secondary amendment moved Secondary amendment voted on Primary amendment (as amended, if the secondary amendment was adopted) voted on Main motion (as amended, if the primary amendment was adopted) voted on
  25. Yesterday
  26. If the primary amendment was amended by the secondary amendment, voted on and approved, then doesn't the primary amendment disappear? The secondary amendment that was just voted on and approved, becomes the new wording of the Main motion and is then voted on again as the Main motion?
  1. Load more activity
  • Create New...