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  1. Yesterday
  2. Daniel H. Honemann

    Reconsideration of a question

    Well, among other things, when a vote is reconsidered the motion being reconsidered is brought back before the assembly in the same position it occupied the moment before it was voted on originally. This may mean that all sorts of things that happened during its original consideration may have an effect upon its reconsideration. This is not at all the case when a motion is renewed.
  3. jstackpo

    Reconsideration of a question

    The difference is that a "reconsideration" involves a formal motion "to reconsider" (with limits of who can make the motion to reconsider and when) while "renew" means that anybody (NO previous Yea or Nay requirements) can make the same motion (that was defeated previously) at a later session/meeting.
  4. How does that differ from "reconsideration"?
  5. Daniel H. Honemann

    Reconsideration of a question

    Although the vote by which this motion was defeated cannot be reconsidered, it doesn't matter because the defeated motion can simply be made again (renewed).
  6. I belong to an organization that endorses political candidates. To do so requires a two-thirds vote of the voting members present. At our last meeting an endorsement was defeated by one vote. A motion to reconsider was deemed out of order because it was not made by a member of the "prevailing side", i.e., the 'nays'. Now they are trying to call a special meeting to reconsider the issue. My contention is that reconsideration of the question must still be raised by the prevailing side. The opposing side says that since it is a new meeting, the restriction does not apply. Who is correct?
  7. Nothing in RONR would prohibit these examples of "multiple service". Your rules & bylaws may have rules pertaining to your question -- best to check them carefully. (What is an INC board? A group of spelling impaired calligraphers?)
  8. My question is, Can the President of the Inc Board also serve as a member of the personnel committee and also serve as the President of the District Board under the same roof?
  9. Daniel H. Honemann

    Revisit or new motion?

    Unlike the situation in Official Interpretation 2006-18, this was not an instance in which the motion under consideration was a motion to Rescind or to Amend Something Previously Adopted. The motion which was made here was not in order because it conflicted with a motion previously adopted and still in force. Such improper motions, if declared to be adopted, are null and void unless adopted by the vote required to amend or rescind the motion previously adopted, and a point of order concerning their validity can be raised at any time. If and when such a point of order is raised, the motion so adopted should be declared to be null and void unless it is determined, at that time, that it had been adopted by the vote required to amend or rescind the previously adopted motion.
  10. Josh Martin

    substitute motions

    A substitute is a form of the motion to Amend - specifically, one which seeks to replace an entire paragraph, section, article, or the entire motion with new language. Such a motion takes precedence over the main motion. The motion to substitute is considered first. After the motion to substitute is considered, the main motion (either as originally made or as now amended, depending on whether the substitute is adopted) is then considered. A subsidiary motion is a broader category of motions, which includes, but is not limited to, a motion to substitute. A subsidiary motion is one which assists the assembly in handling a main motion (and sometimes other motions). This category includes the motion to Amend (which a motion to substitute is a form of), but it includes other motions as well. A motion to postpone, for instance, is a subsidiary motion. As to this particular substitute, I concur with Mr. Huynh that it would generally not be in order. An amendment which would have the same effect as simply defeating the main motion is not in order. I am aware, however, that a motion to deny often is required in some government bodies (such as zoning boards).
  11. Josh Martin

    Published minutes

    Why do you ask? The fact that the minutes are or are not published is of no consequence so far as the rules in RONR are concerned. I will say that, generally speaking, to “publish” would refer to making a document available to the public at large. The minutes must be made available to the members of the assembly, but they need not be made available to the public at large unless required to do so by the society’s rules or applicable law. Even if the assembly is required to (or chooses to) make its minutes available to the public, this has absolutely no effect on the rules pertaining to the minutes. Especially since there are no longer any such rules. RONR no longer uses the term “published minutes,” no doubt to avoid the confusion caused by that phrase. “Sometimes a society wishes to have a full record of its proceedings made available to the public, and when such a record of the proceedings is to be published (in which case it is often called "proceedings," "transactions," or the like), it frequently contains, in addition to the information described above for inclusion in the minutes, a list of the speakers on each side of every question, with an abstract or the text of each address... Any such record or transcript of the proceedings prepared for publication, however, does not take the place of the minutes, and it is the minutes which comprise the official record of the assembly's proceedings.” (RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 475-476)
  12. Richard Brown

    Revisit or new motion?

    Why wouldn't a challenge to the chair's possible incorrect announcement that the motion was adopted have to be challenged by a timely point of order at the time of the announcement? A question as to whether a quorum was present may be raised at any time (but is subject to a high burden of proof), but I'm not aware of any provision in RONR that allows the chair's incorrect announcement as to whether a motion was adopted to be a continuing breach that can be challenged at any time. Edited to add: Allowing the announced vote result to be challenged at any time during the continuance of the breach also seems to conflict with Official Interpretation 2006-18: http://www.robertsrules.com/interp_list.html#2006_18
  13. Guest

    Revisit or new motion?

    Mr. Honemann did preface his comment with this statement. I took it to mean that if there was no question about the 80% vote in favour (or any vote >2/3), then a point of order would not be well taken.
  14. Richard Brown

    Revisit or new motion?

    Those are my thoughts, too. What are JJ, Mr. Huynh and I missing?
  15. J. J.

    Revisit or new motion?

    Wouldn't p. 251, ll. 12-15, apply in this case, i.e. that the motion was "adopted by the vote required to rescind or amend the previously adopted motion?" It may be a situation where the action was wrong, but it is too late to do anything about it.
  16. This course is recognized by NAP and passing it is the equivalent of passing the membership exam. So that would indicate a good course.
  17. J. J.

    substitute motions

    A motion "to deny" does not exist in RONR, though it is used in some governmental bodies (and creates a whole bunch of procedural problems). It would be possible to Amend Something Previously Adopted (ASPA), which would be the "revisiting" part. It would be possible to move to Postpone Indefinitely the ASPA.
  18. Does NAP (or similar organizations) offer courses (online or otherwise)? In my experience unless the instructor knows what they are doing it can do more damage than good. One time an advocacy group I worked with asked me to give a down and dirty run-down of parliamentary procedure (about an hour) for people who were going to be members of governmental bodies. The notes written by previous instructors and the handouts were at best 25% accurate and I had to pretty much toss everything out and start from scratch.
  19. Getting a copy of RONR itself and diving in, would be another good first step. Click here to start your voyage of discovery..
  20. Have read Roberts Rules in brief a couple times- would like to learn more... would the course above be a good first step ??? Thanks for the assistance !!
  21. Gary Novosielski

    Published minutes

    But making them available to members, even after approval, is not "publishing". In virtually all ordinary societies, you can safely ignore rules regarding "published" minutes.
  22. Daniel H. Honemann

    Revisit or new motion?

    Yes. "Apart from a motion to Rescind or to Amend Something Previously Adopted (35), no main motion is in order that conflicts with a motion previously adopted at any time and still in force." (RONR, 11th ed., p. 111) Assuming that there is a legitimate question as to whether or not this motion was adopted by at least a two-thirds vote, a point of order concerning its validity can be raised at any time (RONR, 11th ed., p. 251). Whether or not this is what happened at the meeting held two weeks later is not clear.
  23. Hieu H. Huynh

    Published minutes

    Generally the minutes are to be made available to members to review. Whether the minutes would be made available to the public is up to your rules.
  24. Hieu H. Huynh

    substitute motions

    Generally a "substitute" is a form of amendment. It would not be appropriate to have a substitute to not do the main motion.
  25. Hieu H. Huynh

    Revisit or new motion?

    Generally an adopted motion could be amended by a two-thirds vote. It appears that threshold has been met in this case.
  26. Guest

    Revisit or new motion?

    When the complaining member made his speech what words did he use (this was during a meeting, right?) and what did the presiding officer say?
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