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  1. Yesterday
  2. I concur with Mr. Honemann that these rules may not be suspended. I would add that another option for the society to consider would be to amend the bylaws to remove these rules from the bylaws entirely and subsequently adopt them as standing rules instead, in order to make them easier to amend in the future. Generally, the bylaws contain the fundamental rules of the organization and its operations, such as rules pertaining to membership, officers, elections, meetings, and the like. They usually are not the place for rules pertaining to parks and beaches.
  3. As far as the rules in RONR are concerned, the answer to your first question is "yes", and the answer to your second question is "no."
  4. No, these are not rules that can be suspended (unless the bylaws specifically provide for their suspension, which apparently is not the case). The bylaws will have to be amended in order to make any change in these rules.
  5. Thank you for the response. To answer the question asked by Mr. Katz, during the reading of the minutes by the Secretary I commented on the wording. It was the Chair of the Bylaws Committee who made the comment about how the minutes should be "accurate". Thanks again. Much appreciated.
  6. Our organization needed to fill a vacant position. Our By-Laws state that only the Delegate Assembly can vote to fill a vacancy and that the entire membership is not eligible to vote to fill a vacancy. The person who was elected was unable to vote in their own election since they were not a member of the delegate assembly. Can a person be elected to a position that they cannot vote for? Are only members of the delegate assembly eligible to run for the position if they are the only people who can vote for it?
  7. Guest

    Rules in Bylaws

    Our homeowner association has a 4 acre park and beach. The bylaws list 20 “rules” concerning the beach, including “No dogs in the park” and “No bicycles” A growing group of residents want to propose having hours at the beach for dogs, with an area away from the regular beach, limited hours, etc. Also, allow children to ride and park their bikes there. Are these the type of rules that can be “suspended“?
  8. Last week
  9. Thank you for the interpretations. Chris
  10. Actually I was mistaken. July 3rd is a paid holiday for certain federal employees, but July 4th is still the official observance of Independence Day.
  11. I agree that interpretation of your bylaws is up to your organization. FWIW, my interpretation (reading it in a way that makes everything make sense when read together, as per Principle of Interpretation 2 in RONR 11th ed., p. 589) I read it to say that you have four different pathways to terminate a membership. Two different bodies could do it: A) two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the full Board of Directors OR B ) a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of votes cast by the Active and Life members in attendance at a special or annual meeting of the association for which a quorum is present and either of them can do it on one of two grounds: i) for cause by disciplinary proceedings OR ii) for violation of the Code of Ethics of the association So the four pathways are A/i, A/ii, B/i, and B/ii. I further read the bylaws to define "for cause" in pathways A/i or B/i as "Any behavior that injures the good name of the association, disturbs its well-being, or hampers its work is subject to disciplinary action." [taken from 5.1.3] I don't see that you need to go through the discipline committee if you are invoking ground (ii), the violation of the Code of Ethics. In that situation, I agree with Mr. Martin in his first response, that the decision on whether the code has been violated would be the opinion and judgement of the body making the decision, whether (A) or (B). BTW, I presume you actually have a Code of Ethics and that the items listed in the 5.1.3 don't appear in that code. Otherwise (i) and (ii) are redundant. Your Discipline Committee appears to have the functions of both the investigation committee and the trial committee that are described in RONR 11th ed., pages 656-669. Your bylaw 5.1.3, in fact, appears to be a slightly reworded quote from p. 669, lines 10-36, which describes a "Committee on Discipline" that can have both functions. To summarize by answering your original questions: Yes. This is pathway A/ii B/ii The members of the board make that decision for themselves. A/ii or B/ii do not require the involvement of the discipline committee
  12. Wow, mega thanks for the replies, it looks like I wasn't being too picky after all! Clay
  13. No, I don't think this clarifies anything. Keep in mind that currently, neither of the rules says anything about a recommendation, so I don't see how adding a rule about "precedence" would make clear that this is what is supposed to happen. If the society wishes to clarify these rules, it should add language which clearly states what it wants the rules to be.
  14. Our current interpretation is that the Discipline Committee shall investigate the information that has been circulating in the association (with no formal complaints filed) and make a recommendation to the Board of Directors on whether they should take one of two routes: 1) file charges, and follow the disciplinary process through to trial or 2) recommend that the BOD act in accordance with Bylaw 2.4.1 " The membership of a member may be terminated by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the full Board of Directors, or by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of votes cast by the Active and Life members in attendance at a special or annual meeting of the association for which a quorum is present, for cause by disciplinary proceedings or for violation of the Code of Ethics of the association." Would the clarification indicate that the order of precedence is Bylaw 2.4.1 over the Discipline Committee description or would the clarification be to included in the committee description, identifying whether the bylaw or the committee duties have precedence? Thank you. I appreciate the help you have given on this matter.
  15. There seems to be some ambiguity in the meaning of these two rules, taken together. On the one hand, this clause seems to clearly provide that the Discipline Committee "shall investigate disciplinary issues, shall review all written complaints on disciplinary issues, shall determine if charges shall be brought, shall manage each case and report the necessary and recommended resolutions and, shall hold the trial, if it should be necessary." On the other hand, the other rule clearly states "The membership of a member may be terminated by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the full Board of Directors... for violation of the Code of Ethics of the association." My best guess is that the intent is to have the Discipline Committee make a recommendation regarding the matter (after its process is concluded) to the board or membership, which makes the final decision. Then again, I didn't write these rules, and maybe there's even more provisions scattered throughout the bylaws regarding discipline I don't know about that would change the answer further. So I'd take this answer with a very large helping of salt. As I have noted previously, the organization will ultimately need to determine what its own bylaws mean. In the long run, it would seem prudent to amend the bylaws to clarify this issue.
  16. The Discipline Committee is established as a Standing Committee in the Bylaws. 5.1.3 The Discipline Committee shall be composed of five (5) members. The members of this committee shall be alert to and shall investigate disciplinary issues, shall review all written complaints on disciplinary issues, shall determine if charges shall be brought, shall manage each case and report the necessary and recommended resolutions and, shall hold the trial, if it should be necessary. Any behavior that injures the good name of the association, disturbs its well-being, or hampers its work is subject to disciplinary action. A written report for each investigation shall be given to the Board of Directors.
  17. Josh Martin, A Discipline Committee has been established as a Standing committee in the bylaws. "5.1.3 The Discipline Committee shall be composed of five (5) members. The members of this committee shall be alert to and shall investigate disciplinary issues, shall review all written complaints on disciplinary issues, shall determine if charges shall be brought, shall manage each case and report the necessary and recommended resolutions and, shall hold the trial, if it should be necessary. Any behavior that injures the good name of the association, disturbs its well-being, or hampers its work is subject to disciplinary action. A written report for each investigation shall be given to the Board of Directors."
  18. It should first be noted that questions concerning the interpretation of the organization's bylaws and code of ethics ultimately are up to the organization itself to determine, and will require a review of these documents in their entirety. RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 588-591 has some Principles of Interpretation which may be of assistance in this regard. With that said, I will do what I can to provide limited guidance on these questions based upon the limited facts provided. That would appear to be the case, since the rule specifically states that "The membership of a member may be terminated by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the full Board of Directors... for violation of the Code of Ethics of the association." Based solely on what is provided here, it would seem to be in the opinion of the board, since the rule in question makes no reference to a Discipline Committee. It may well be, however, that the society has other rules establishing the "Discipline Committee" and defining the role of that committee in these matters, and those rules may affect the answer to this question. This is why, as I said earlier, that interpreting rules properly requires reading them in their entirety.
  19. There is a discipline issue before our BOD and Discipline Committee. Our discipline process is that of RONR. In addition, there is a bylaw that pertains. The issue falls under our interpretation of the Code of Ethics. Does the following bylaw given authority to the BOD, by two-thirds vote, to terminate the membership of a member that violates the Code of Ethics? If so, how is it determined that the Code of Ethics has been violated? Is it the opinion of the BOD or does there have to be a trial by the Discipline Committee? "2.4.1 The membership of a member may be terminated by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of the full Board of Directors, or by a two-thirds (2/3) majority vote of votes cast by the Active and Life members in attendance at a special or annual meeting of the association for which a quorum is present, for cause by disciplinary proceedings or for violation of the Code of Ethics of the association."
  20. However, the body could (and I suggest it would be a good idea) adopt a proviso that the change is effective at the final adjournment of the session.
  21. Presumably, an hour earlier than the rest of the Mountain Time Zone.
  22. Yes. July Fourth is scheduled for July 3rd this year. (Although who knows when it will take place in Arizona.)
  23. No, it's obviously not in order to allow mail ballots before the amendment which permits them has been adopted. I suppose it would theoretically be permissible to accept mail votes for items which are voted on after the amendment is adopted, but this would be unusual and puts members in an awkward position, since members would have no way of knowing for certain if or when the amendment will be adopted. If proxy votes are currently permitted under the bylaws, they will continue to be permitted unless and until the amendment removing them is adopted. Proxy votes would not be permitted for any votes taken afterward. This rule could be suspended by a 2/3 vote to move the bylaw amendment to the start of the meeting. Alternately, you could postpone the motion when it is pending to move it to the very end of the meeting, or adopt a proviso that the amendment will not take effect until the adjournment of the meeting. Either way, it would probably be ideal not to change the rules on voting partway through the meeting. Yes, that certainly seems problematic. I suppose, however, that a potential workaround would be for everyone to give their proxies to one very trusted member (with the meeting to be held at that member's home) who would cast the proxies as instructed by the members via the informal Zoom meeting (or through other means).
  24. Guest

    When does a President vote

    Thank you for the response.
  25. Thank you, Weldon (speaking for all of Canada 😉)! Looking forward to visiting each other in person again. And an early Happy Independence Day! Y'all stay safe, please.
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