Shmuel Gerber Posted June 18, 2015 at 04:17 AM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 04:17 AM I think that nothing you added caused anyone to change their advice. I will simply take this opportunity to point out that despite all vehement protestations to the contrary, many (and probably most) people who speak and write Standard English freely make use of "singular they" when it suits their purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted June 18, 2015 at 12:53 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 12:53 PM I will simply take this opportunity to point out that despite all vehement protestations to the contrary, many (and probably most) people who speak and write Standard English freely make use of "singular they" when it suits their purposes. Well, it seems to me that many (and probably most) people who speak and write standard English often regard the word "anyone", when used in a context such as this, as referring to one or more persons, thus inviting use of the plural "they". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted June 18, 2015 at 04:16 PM Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 04:16 PM Well, it seems to me that many (and probably most) people who speak and write standard English often regard the word "anyone", when used in a context such as this, as referring to one or more persons, thus inviting use of the plural "they".Oh, there's no doubt about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted June 18, 2015 at 04:19 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 04:19 PM Oh, there's no doubt about that. Okay, so in these instances they aren't using a singular "they" to suit their purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted June 18, 2015 at 05:49 PM Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 05:49 PM Okay, so in these instances they aren't using a singular "they" to suit their purposes. Each type of usage needs to be judged on its own merits, but I was using "singular they" to encompass a variety of instances where either the antecedent of "they" (or "their," etc.) is grammatically singular or the word is clearly referring to one person. True, one could differentiate between this:"I think that nothing you added caused anyone to change their advice"and this example (cited in the Wikipedia entry on "Singular they"):"Somebody left their umbrella in the office. Would they please collect it?"The only points I was trying to make are that things are not as simple as Mr. Novosielski's fourth-grade teacher might have made them out to be, and that what people say about grammar frequently does not comport with real-world usage, including their own. (And, in case my ruminations on the subject are making anyone nervous, he, she, and they may rest assured that the authorship team currently has no plans to use the "singular they" in the next edition of RONR in any way, shape, or form.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted June 18, 2015 at 06:36 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 06:36 PM (And, in case my ruminations on the subject are making anyone nervous, he, she, and they may rest assured that the authorship team currently has no plans to use the "singular they" in the next edition of RONR in any way, shape, or form.) This is comforting, although I can't imagine why the authorship team would spend any time at all just to make changes (even avoiding the "singular they") simply for purposes of political correctness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted June 18, 2015 at 06:54 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 06:54 PM This is comforting, although I can't imagine why the authorship team would spend any time at all just to make changes (even avoiding the "singular they") simply for purposes of political correctness. Perhaps the 13th edition will use "she" instead of "he" as the default singular pronoun. Or at least include sample minutes where the president is female and the secretary is male. And maybe a treasurer's report where the treasurer is female (sorry Richard Larsen). Though it's good to see that Colleen Burke is on the Auditing Committee. #MargaretDuffyForPresident And not refer to "Mrs. Smith" as a "chairman" And not refer to all the women as "Mrs.". Surely there must be some unmarried women in the L.M. (Lonely Men?) Society. Or not? Okay, maybe the 14th edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:02 PM Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:02 PM This is comforting, although I can't imagine why the authorship team would spend any time at all just to make changes (even avoiding the "singular they") simply for purposes of political correctness. Are you kidding? By the time the 12th edition is published, phrases such as "he or she" are likely to be as politically incorrect as generic "he" is nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:06 PM Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:06 PM And not refer to all the women as "Mrs.". Surely there must be some unmarried women in the L.M. (Lonely Men?) Society. Or not? Oh, dear. Miss A (pp. 35-36), Ms. Watkins (p. 49), and Miss Dillon (p. 179) are going to be greatly insulted by this comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:13 PM Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:13 PM And maybe a treasurer's report where the treasurer is female (sorry Richard Larsen). Well, the former Treasurer, J.M., was female, but she was absolutely terrible and had to be kicked out of office (see pp. 659ff.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:19 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:19 PM Perhaps the 13th edition will use "she" instead of "he" as the default singular pronoun. Or at least include sample minutes where the president is female and the secretary is male. And maybe a treasurer's report where the treasurer is female (sorry Richard Larsen). Does nothing satisfy you? We went out of our way to make sure that the treasurer against whom charges are brought was clearly identified as being a female (pp. 657-61). Edited to add: Shucks, Shmuel beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:26 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:26 PM Ms. Watkins (p. 49) I'm preparing to eat . . . humble pie? crow? my hat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:39 PM Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 at 07:39 PM I'm preparing to eat . . . humble pie? crow? my hat?Eating your hat shouldn't cause a problem. We only count heads, not hats, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted June 20, 2015 at 03:54 PM Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 at 03:54 PM I prefer the generic "he." The problem with writing "he or she" is that it appears stilted. On the other hand, I prefer "chair" to "chairman" or "chairwoman." I also very much dislike seeing "they" used as singular. But "Ms." and "Mr." are fine; "Miss" seems to be dated now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted June 22, 2015 at 12:45 AM Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 at 12:45 AM I prefer the generic "he." Of course you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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