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Mike Arnold

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  1. We seem determined to only meet 2 times per year in person, maybe 1-2 more times on phone, all with "essential" business, never more than 4 hours at a time. We have term limits, so it might just be easier to wait it out.
  2. They say: "Meetings of the membership and the Board of Directors shall be conducted according to Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised. "
  3. For part one of this motion (to rescind the board action), even though it has been implemented, it is reversible and it seems 'rescind' is the right term. The second part of the motion (or a separate motion ... "I further move") to require the board to modify its procedures with decisions of this class, seems to be a bylaw change and our bylaws specify a series of date requirements that have not been met. (does this seem right?) The more interesting question seems to be about the rights of the membership, I've found little explicitly stated in the bylaws: the members can amend the bylaws, ele
  4. At our last board meeting the board passed, what has become, a controversial decision. There is a movement among the membership to rescind the board decision at our upcoming membership meeting. It seems that rescind is not the right term (given that no person outside the board voted on the motion). What is the right terminology and process that should be used by the membership to overturn the decision of the board? I don't think the voting requirements to override the board are specified in our bylaws, does RONR have any burden beyond the majority? This member movement seems to want to make
  5. From what I can tell, it is the preference of the president, thinking he is providing a service. The prescribed format does not prohibit such a preference, so there is no compelling reason to change. Now for me this gets us to a logic issue, at least when one attempts to correct that which deviates from the prescribed format, there are various issues which are prohibited, but there are many more which are not. I have not found (nor have I looked too hard) for the statement that indicated the prescribed format "should not be deviated from except for good reason," and even if that statement ex
  6. Since RONR may very well be overruled by statute in the area of vote counting, I will remain silent on this issue (and really all other RONR issues, if I can) until I can become knowledgable about all of the applicable laws. This is surely not as simple as reading a well-contained document like RONR, and not being a lawyer, will take me into that other world! I also see my difficulty in understanding in RONR when 'if its not listed its not prohibited' vs 'if its not listed its not allowed' is going to be problematic. Thank y'all for your help. still thinking of just changing my id to, aMajor
  7. The organization is a 501©(3) incorporated in NY. I knew that we had to comply with the applicable NY laws, I just didn't imagine it could affect things so basic. I am looking for the applicable statutes now, suggestions appreciated. thanks, aSP.
  8. Since I 'felt' the counting and naming of the minority was both time-wasting and potentially divisive and my personal interpretation of RONR suggested that such a practice was not normative, I asked this forum if there were rules prohibiting such counting. As you have stated there is nothing to prohibit the counting or the naming. So, from what you have said, I have no standing on those issues. Others in this thread have indicated that I do have some ground to stand on. I might suggest that ignorant the president is not, determined he is. (always time for a little Yoda) My apologies for be
  9. 1) not fair having a way to search 2) perhaps someone would volunteer a definition of instance that would make sense in this instance
  10. So, its the president's intent to continue to count and from this, that can be done at the president's discretion. This was my original point, there is nothing to prohibit it. Since the secretary recorded the count, per RONR (11th ed.), p. 411, ll. 19 - 21, they too must be included in the minutes. (it _is_ being record in the minutes) Note that in my circles, this is now officially considered a loop. shew, aSP. P.S. Is there a Parliamentarian Hot-Line? (only kinda kidding)
  11. My apologies, I meant to take 'feel' out of that posting! :-) dang it. In this case, RONR does seem more prescriptive than proscriptive. For example, RONR (11th ed.), p. 45, l. 14 says "The chair should not call for abstentions...", when stating that our current practice of counting and enumerating the minority & abstentions does not conform to RONR, it would be easier if RONR made a similar statement about counting. It does say in RONR (11th ed.), p. 47, ll. 4-5 "If a rising vote remains inconclusive, the chair or the assembly can order the vote to be counted", this is echoed in RONR (1
  12. "I." and "II." ... of course, its a typeface problem, I could only see as roman numerals. From what I can tell, if the president decided to include temperature, there is nothing to say he cannot. So if he decided to include the count, there is nothing that says he cannot. I understand the "normal" interpretation and I feel that listing the minority could be considered divisive, but perhaps it can be seen as a short-cut way to make sure the membership understands who is voting for what. aSP.
  13. I'd like to thank all for the suffering, its been a most pleasant introduction to the forum! Unfortunately, RONR (11th ed.), p. 470, ll. 29-33 only indicate that names should be listed if the vote was by roll call, it is silent about the negative (i.e. about recording names with all other voting methods). RONR (11th ed.), p. 45, l. 27 - p. 47, l. 24 says only "The simple rising vote (in which the number of members voting on each side is not counted)", not to the recording of names, though that might be implied by 'not counting'. RONR (11th ed.), p. 420 only speaks to Roll Call votes. RONR (11t
  14. Thanks for the advice, I'll soon have a change to give it a try. No matter how pleasant it has been this short time in Poughkeepsie, its now time to _leave_ and finally have my RRONR back! thanks, aStudentParliamentarian
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