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Matt Schafer

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Posts posted by Matt Schafer

  1. Technically, no.

    According to RONR, the chair is to do two things when the vote threshold is based on those present (as opposed to the default standard, present AND voting):

    1. count the affirmative votes

    2. count the total number of members present, after the affirmative vote.

    (see page 390.)

    Note that the the chair NEVER counts (1.) the negative vote; (2.) the abstentions; when the voting threshold is based on members present.

    That is The Book.

    Why should the chair not count the negative vote?

    When such a vote is required, however, the chair must count those present immediately after the affirmative vote is taken, before any change can take place in attendance.

    So the count of those present should happen immediately after the affirmative vote, but nowhere does this paragraph on p. 390 state that the negative vote should not be taken or counted. Furthermore:

    The chair must always call for the negative vote [except when the motion is not controversial or has a very low threshold and no member objects.]

    So if we're considering a motion that requires the affirmative vote of a certain portion of the members present in order to adopt, and the vote is to be counted, the chair should (1) take the affirmative vote; (2) count all of the members present; (3) then take the negative vote; and finally (4) announce all three counts and the result of the vote, which should then be recorded in the minutes.

  2. To be precise then, when approval is necessary by two-thirds majority of the group, abstentions are totaled with the "no" votes, correct? Or, since they are not votes, they are not counted, period?

    ed, I want to make sure we're answering the question that you intend. A "two-thirds majority of the group" can be interpreted the wrong way. Do you mean:

    1. A two-thirds vote is required to adopt the motion;
    2. A two-thirds vote of the members present is required to adopt; or
    3. A two-thirds vote of all members is required to adopt?

    For any of these three conditions, the abstention votes are not counted.

    For number 1, if the affirmative votes are at least 2/3 of the votes cast (sum of affirmative and negative), the motion is adopted. The abstentions do not affect the result. (If counted, the minutes should show the number of votes cast on both sides.)

    For number 2, it is also necessary for the chair to count the number of members present. The chair should take the affirmative vote, then count the number of members present, then take the negative vote. If the affirmative is at least 2/3 of the members who are present, the motion is adopted. So while the abstentions aren't counted, there is no difference in the outcome if the member votes no or abstains. (If counted, the minutes should show the counts of affirmative votes, negative votes, and members present.)

    For number 3, it is necessary for the chair to count the affirmative vote and the negative vote, and then the chair should ask the officer whose responsibility it is to maintain the membership roll how many members there are. If the affirmative vote is at least 2/3 of the total number of members in the organization, the motion is adopted. Again, the abstentions are not counted, and there is no effect on the outcome if a member votes no, abstains or doesn't show up at all. (If counted, the minutes should show the counts of affirmative votes, negative votes, and total membership.)

    But as you see, the abstentions are never counted.

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