Father Cadan

Between the nomination and election meeting

Bylaws: Section 3. ELIGIBILITY FOR OFFICE. No person shall be eligible to hold office in this club unless he/she is an active member in good standing. Section 4. NOMINATION MEETING. A nomination meet- ing shall be held in March of each year or as determined by the board of directors, with the date and place of such meeting to be determined by the board of directors. Notice of the meeting shall be published by regular post or electronic means or by personal delivery to each member of this club at least fourteen (14) calendar days prior to the date of the meeting Section 5. NOMINATING COMMITTEE. The president shall appoint a nominating committee which shall submit the names of candidates for the various club offices to the club at the nomination meeting. At this meeting, nominations for all offices to be filled in the succeeding year may also be made from the floor. Section 6. ELECTION COMMITTEE. An election meeting shall be held in April or as determined by the board of directors, at a time and place determined by the board of directors. Notice of the election meeting shall be pub- lished by regular post or electronic means or by personal delivery to each member of the club at least fourteen (14) calendar days prior the date of the meeting. Such notice shall include the names of all nominees approved at the preceding nomination meeting, and, subject to Section 3 above, a statement that these nominees will be voted upon at this election meeting. No nominations may be made from the floor at the election meeting. Section 7. BALLOT. The election shall be conducted by a secret written ballot by those present and qualified to vote. Section 9. NOMINEE UNABLE TO SERVE. If in the interim between the nomination meeting and the election meeting any nominee is unable for any reason to serve in the office to which he/she was nominated and for which office there was no other nominee, the nominating com- mittee shall submit, at the election meeting, names of additional nominees for that office.

They want only those nominated at the nomination meeting to qualify at the election meeting. I guess this gives nominees two weeks to campaign and no surprise contenders...?

We have a mandatory two week space of time between nominations and elections. Nominations are not allowed at the election meeting. After accepting nomination a member emailed the nominating committee and the secretary withdrawing from the election. According to our bylaws when someone is nominated at the nomination meeting and is then unable to serve for whatever reason (I assume this includes no longer desiring to serve) the nomination committee may then fill the position on the ballot. A week after withdrawing, the member wishes to withdraw their withdrawal. If this were a resignation I would understand that the resignation hasn't been accepted so the resignation could be withdrawn. If this were a normal nomination immediately followed by election we could reopen nominations. Do withdrawn nominations need to be accepted? Does the Nomination committee having filled the spot change things? Most importantly what do we put on our mandatory secret ballot? Thank you in advance for all the advice I've received on this forum.

I wouldn't say that notice is required, but is given sometimes in the form of the agenda going out before the meeting. The agenda though would just be the topic: 'Donation to X' or 'Event X'. We have had special meetings of the board in the middle of our membership meeting to comply with the 'board first' requirement.

The enforcement of this rule has been inconsistent. The interpretation generally changes when we get a new President. Sometimes it is like the rule doesn't exist. Sometimes, so long as both the Board and the membership approve the same item, the order of approval does not matter. Sometimes the item is required to be referred to the board. Sometimes it is claimed that this rule only applies to spending money. Once the board considers an item, the membership meeting is allowed to do whatever they wish, i.e. there is no scope. They would not allow a motion to refer to the board unless the board considered and shaped it first. Inconsistency aside, I would answer that members cannot make motions at all. Once the Board considers the matter, the membership can make any motion on general category of the matter that the membership desires. The membership meetings do not take up the item as a recommendation from the board. The Board does not move to recommended X. An alternative explanation: The Board makes a motion to donate $250 to Charity X. At the next membership meeting, motions to donate to charity X are allowed, so are motions to volunteer at a booth for the event the donation is for, or a motion on taking our bus to the event. The Board makes a motion to buy an Apple computer not to exceed $500. At the next membership meeting, motions to buy any computer for any price are allowed, since the board has considered buying a computer.

I wrote the above. I am not sure why it said I am a guest.

will do, thanks again

FYI regular meeting of the membership is what is referred to here. The BOD then votes at its separate (I suppose regular) meeting to accept new members. Thank you, I believe my question is answered to the best extent possible.

RONR 46:47 "...If a formal installation ceremony is prescribed, failure to hold it does not affect the time at which the new officers assume office." The BOD votes to accept new members to a service organization. Do the prospective members become full members immediately, or must they wait until their formal installation ceremony? The bylaws state only that "The President will read membership applications at the regular meeting only when the prospective new member is present. The Board will then vote on accepting the prospective member." and "Each new member will receive a vest and name tag at time of Induction. The cost of which will be paid out of the Administrative Account." The vest and name tags are back-orderd such that it will be at least a month before we have them. Thank you

Thank you both. I've been too busy. Hopefully I will not be so busy anymore and therefore can do more things...

Email, and posting on the bulletin board, and mailed to members who have not opted out of physical mailing. The mailing would have been received in time to count as 5+ days notice.

An organization publishes a calendar of events and sends this to their membership monthly. They voted to move a meeting which requires the membership to be notified. Is changing the date of the meeting on their published calendar proper notice?

Because it has been my experience that this question comes up after the fact I am trying to figure out what the default is. Similar to someone saying we do not specify a quorum in any of our documents. I can show in RONR where the default is specified. If someone says we adopted the budget and then the treasure paid for budgeted items; is that allowed? I can not find a default in RON,R though I can find hints in RONR and Parliamentary Law and in Demeter's and in reviewing the Common Law of England. These hints seem to be in two camps. The first is that adopting of the budget is really receiving a report with no recommendations and therefore authorizes nothing; the second being that adopting of the budget is really a motion to 'expend up to the listed amount for the expenses of the listed category'. Where I am having a problem is in the inconsistency following the presumption of each camp. If adopting a budget is a report with no recommendations exceeding expenses in line items is not barred, a board is able to spend as much as it desires since the superior body has not limited it. If adopting a budget is an authorization the expenses are authorized only up to listed amounts for listed categories, going beyond the limits would require an amendment of the budget. The only reason I have continued this discussion for so long is that I believe that this is a fairly common problem likely to lead to legal battles, member disgruntlement etc.

I do not remember complaining. I think that when Robert referred to a budget, he assumed, and, at the time, it was likely a good assumption, that people knew what approving a budget did. Since I have had people/organizations espouse both views of budgets (i.e. they authorize spending vs they are just a bunch of numbers/a plan/guidance) I am trying to figure out what a budget is under RONR. Robert gives us sample bylaws, and I think I have figured out the answer by reading Parliamentary Law. I am still left with some problems in consistency with both views. If a budget does not authorize expenditures then adopting a budget does not limit anything. Therefore it would be in order to move to "expend $10,000 to buy computers" even though the budget only lists $1,000 in the line item for computers. The budget is what the Society planned to do the other motion is what the Society is actually doing. If, however, budgets are binding and not just plans, then the example motion in this paragraph would be out of order and the budget would first need to be amended by a 2/3 vote. I understand that when creating my own organization from scratch I can "do things however {I} want." I am asking, "What if the organization I am working with does not say one way or the other?"

The problem I have with the quote from page 461 is that I do not know if an adopted budget counts as an authorization. Do you believe that the entire Society must meet every (let's presume) two weeks to approve each payroll check? Alternatively if the budget for payroll as approved by the Society was $1, would the motion to "pay our janitor $1,000 for the work he did in the last pay period" be in order? Would the voting threshold be a majority or 2/3? I would assume that the budgeted item for Community Grants would have to be disbursed according to the terms of the grant, whatever those are. The manner in which Webster's New World Robert's Rules of Order Simplified and Applied, 2nd Edition handles the issue makes sense to me. The Society controls its general affairs by adopting a budget. The Board acting within the budget handles the day to day approval of each specific item (general supervision of day to day affairs). The Board must stay within that budget for each line item. Committees to which budgets are given must likewise stay within their assigned amounts. Grants or other line items must comply with whatever motion made them. I.e. "I move that we give the immediate past president a token of appreciation not to exceed $100 every year." This not only limits the amount but the number of times per year. Here's another wrench: The vote on the motion to "Adopt the budget as distributed" has just been completed and the Chair states: " The ayes being in the majority the motion to 'adopt the budget' is approved, the treasurer will pay the expenses of the Society accordingly.

The attached budget is for a fake organization. Using RONR sample bylaws...Article VII Section 1 "... This comittee [shall] prepare... a budget for the fiscal year... and submit it to the Society... The ... Committee may from time to time submit amendments to the budget... which may be adopted by a majority vote [of the Society]." Pg 577 ln 29 "Thus, for example, if it is desired that the assembly adopt an annual budget but that the board be empowered to alter it to deal with contingencies that may develop, the bylaws (or the budget resolution) must specifically confer this power on the board." This, in my opinion presumes that the budget authorizes spending. If it did not why would the board care to amend the budget? The board should be sending every expenditure back to the society as a recommendation. pg 461 "[The Treasurer]... cannot disburse funds except by authority of the society, or as the bylaws prescribe." The sample bylaws do not prescribe. Does the adoption of a budget give the Treasurer authority?

This is a problem I see in many organizations. They do not specify what adopting a budget means, but, like RONR, they talk about adopting one. What does the unqualified motion to adopt a budget mean? If it means nothing, i.e. confers no authority/limits no officer why bother having one?

Procedurally, what does it mean to adopt a budget. RONR uses the word budget at least three times. I do not need or want Financial Advisory Services.

Assume an organization uses the example bylaws in RONR. The attached budget is distributed to all the members at a meeting. A motion to "adopt the budget as distributed" is passed. The treasurer proceeds to write many checks during the budgeted fiscal year. Has the treasurer done something wrong?

Please find a better source to quote from.

~Webster's New World Robert's Rules of Order Simplified and Applied, 2nd Edition~ What does the unqualified motion to adopt a budget mean? Does it authorize "the person responsible" to approve the bill and further authorize the treasurer to write the check? Does it depend on how the motion to adopt the budget is worded? For example the US House 'appropriates' funds thusly: RONR 11th edition refers to adopting the budget as if we should already know what this means.

I have faith, and a PRP credential and yes the president two years from now has agreed to look at all the bylaws and 'present' an entire revision. They already have a bylaw committee, though I have no idea what they've been doing the last twenty or so years. As a general principle I agree that notice of bylaw provisions are a good idea. I also think that motions should be submitted ahead of time at conventions so that administration can schedule things and 'present' a coherent program to the delegates. In this case the motion was passes unanimously and if in twenty years someone wishes to bring a point of order for a continuing breach then the bean counters can put the money back in the reserve fund and take it back out again as that is what they have been doing and why they see it as unnecessary. The membership is the delegates in this case. The 'notice' if that's what it is only goes to non delegates, unless by chance one is an officer and a delegate. So what does Robert have to say about protecting the rights to notice of non members.... This is no where near as bad as the caucuses of the last presidential elections, but not as good as it could be, and I was asked if tabling this motion was proper... *Shudder* when the member really meant to postpone until the next session. Thank you all for your comments. It is always comforting to know that you are all just as confused as I.

What about incidental main motions... I.e. bylaw amendments? Is adopting recommendations from committees a main motion because the committees meet at convention. I really cannot figure out the intent of resolutions. RONR talks about previous notice for the "adoption of certain motions" pg 121 and then lists classes of motions as an example. If resolutions are all main motions do we not still have an impossible meeting?

Or perhaps it means 'presented' to the relevant committee chair as it States in emergency resolution part.