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Father Cadan

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Everything posted by Father Cadan

  1. Because it has been my experience that this question comes up after the fact I am trying to figure out what the default is. Similar to someone saying we do not specify a quorum in any of our documents. I can show in RONR where the default is specified. If someone says we adopted the budget and then the treasure paid for budgeted items; is that allowed? I can not find a default in RON,R though I can find hints in RONR and Parliamentary Law and in Demeter's and in reviewing the Common Law of England. These hints seem to be in two camps. The first is that adopting of the budget is really receivin
  2. I do not remember complaining. I think that when Robert referred to a budget, he assumed, and, at the time, it was likely a good assumption, that people knew what approving a budget did. Since I have had people/organizations espouse both views of budgets (i.e. they authorize spending vs they are just a bunch of numbers/a plan/guidance) I am trying to figure out what a budget is under RONR. Robert gives us sample bylaws, and I think I have figured out the answer by reading Parliamentary Law. I am still left with some problems in consistency with both views. If a budget does not authorize
  3. The problem I have with the quote from page 461 is that I do not know if an adopted budget counts as an authorization. Do you believe that the entire Society must meet every (let's presume) two weeks to approve each payroll check? Alternatively if the budget for payroll as approved by the Society was $1, would the motion to "pay our janitor $1,000 for the work he did in the last pay period" be in order? Would the voting threshold be a majority or 2/3? I would assume that the budgeted item for Community Grants would have to be disbursed according to the terms of the grant, whatever t
  4. The attached budget is for a fake organization. Using RONR sample bylaws...Article VII Section 1 "... This comittee [shall] prepare... a budget for the fiscal year... and submit it to the Society... The ... Committee may from time to time submit amendments to the budget... which may be adopted by a majority vote [of the Society]." Pg 577 ln 29 "Thus, for example, if it is desired that the assembly adopt an annual budget but that the board be empowered to alter it to deal with contingencies that may develop, the bylaws (or the budget resolution) must specifically confer this power on
  5. This is a problem I see in many organizations. They do not specify what adopting a budget means, but, like RONR, they talk about adopting one. What does the unqualified motion to adopt a budget mean? If it means nothing, i.e. confers no authority/limits no officer why bother having one?
  6. Procedurally, what does it mean to adopt a budget. RONR uses the word budget at least three times. I do not need or want Financial Advisory Services.
  7. Assume an organization uses the example bylaws in RONR. The attached budget is distributed to all the members at a meeting. A motion to "adopt the budget as distributed" is passed. The treasurer proceeds to write many checks during the budgeted fiscal year. Has the treasurer done something wrong?
  8. Please find a better source to quote from.
  9. ~Webster's New World Robert's Rules of Order Simplified and Applied, 2nd Edition~ What does the unqualified motion to adopt a budget mean? Does it authorize "the person responsible" to approve the bill and further authorize the treasurer to write the check? Does it depend on how the motion to adopt the budget is worded? For example the US House 'appropriates' funds thusly: RONR 11th edition refers to adopting the budget as if we should already know what this means.
  10. I have faith, and a PRP credential and yes the president two years from now has agreed to look at all the bylaws and 'present' an entire revision. They already have a bylaw committee, though I have no idea what they've been doing the last twenty or so years. As a general principle I agree that notice of bylaw provisions are a good idea. I also think that motions should be submitted ahead of time at conventions so that administration can schedule things and 'present' a coherent program to the delegates. In this case the motion was passes unanimously and if in twenty years someone wishes to
  11. What about incidental main motions... I.e. bylaw amendments? Is adopting recommendations from committees a main motion because the committees meet at convention. I really cannot figure out the intent of resolutions. RONR talks about previous notice for the "adoption of certain motions" pg 121 and then lists classes of motions as an example. If resolutions are all main motions do we not still have an impossible meeting?
  12. Or perhaps it means 'presented' to the relevant committee chair as it States in emergency resolution part.
  13. I'm thinking it may refer to reduced in writing in triplicate. Never is any of this notice to the delegates. It requires reeolutions to be submitted to different officers, not presented on the floor or mailed to the delegates. Is there any requirement of notice here at all? Making every motion require 45 days notice would make the meeting impossible. Unless you sent notice for recess, adjournment, reconsideration, amendment, etc 45 days in advance.
  14. You asked for it đŸ˜› (titles have been changed for clarification and to protect the not-so-innocent): Article X Miscellaneous Section 1. Resolutions: a. All resolutions to be presented at the Convention shall be in the hands of OFFICER at least 45 days prior to the convening Convention date. b. the OFFICER shall forward all copies of all resolutions thus received to all LOCAL ORGS and STATE OFFICERS at least 30 days prior to the convening Convention date. c. Emergency Resolutions, the subject matter of which shall have arisen at the Convention or less than 45 days prior there
  15. There is nothing more in the bylaws to assist. This is the annual convention and there is a section requiring notice for resolutions, separately there is a section on amending the bylaws. No notice whatsoever: The National organization used to require the reserve account but has since removed the requirement. The state now wishes to remove the requirement as well. The proponents (which I would guess is all or nearly all of the delegates) say that the account creates unnecessary work for the treasurer and they have 1+ million in the bank anyway. The motion is worded "I move to amend t
  16. An organization requires all "resolutions" to be given 45 days advanced notice. Amending the bylaws requires 2/3 vote of all present and voting. They want to amend the bylaws striking the requirement for a reserve fund but have not given any notice. Is the amendment a resolution? Can notice be suspended? Is amending the bylaws a more specific form of 'resolution' and as such the requirement for 2/3 vote supersedes the more general notice required for 'resolutions'? TIA
  17. In my email today I found a link to a really good article by Ann Macfarlane: https://jurassicparliament.com/consensus/ which lead me to a 'book' on the matter On Conflict and Consensus: a handbook on Formal Consensus decisionmaking by C.T. Butler and Amy Rothstein. I have attached it for your entertainment. c-t-butler-and-amy-rothstein-on-conflict-and-consensus-a-handbook-on-formal-consensus-decisionm.pdf
  18. How do you word a motion to 'support' an event? Not really a motion to do anything. Just saying this is a good event that another organization is putting on and we support it.
  19. I think I need to have 2/3 for amendments to it the majority could amend something the super majority won't pass.
  20. I think I'm going to recommend the standard verbage be placed in Parliamentary Authority and a special rule requiring 2/3 vote for all main motions be adopted.
  21. There are so many undefined terms. Right now there are less than ten members, on both council and board, but imagine if they got big. Thank you for your input. You have found more problems, with specific examples, than I. I just ran away screaming.
  22. The council has a voting member on the board. This is an association of independent groups which means they will have different values etc...
  23. This would apply to board meetings as well. The membership (council) and the board never meet together.
  24. What would the effect of moving to recess be if one member disagrees? Wait until the next meeting to decide if you should currently recess?
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