PTA Patty

Thanks for taking the time to respond- I appreciate the opportunity to reach out to other via this forum.

In preparing for the motion to be brought back to the board for approval, I will make sure all board members have a copy of the wording for each association's bylaws related to the funds. I think that will help us make a better decision because I do agree about it being a matter of interpretation.

Joshua Katz: Thanks for your response.

Zev: Thanks for the suggestion.

Zev: Those presenting the motion for the state association did not feel they were violating their own bylaws and when it was pointed out that the procedure was in conflict with the regional association bylaws, they stated that their procedures take precedence over them.

Joshua Katz: Our state association is required to provide funds to our regional association. The state bylaws have no details on how the funds are to be used, the region bylaws state that the funds are to be used for region activities. The state association now wants to adopt a procedure to put restrictions on how the funds are used to the point where a portion of the funds will be "use them or lose them".  The restrictions involve spending the funds for outside of the region activities.

There is no reference in either set of bylaws permitting the state organization to adopt standing rules that are binding on the regional organization.

We are a chartered regional constituent association of a state association. We each have a set of bylaws. The bylaws of our association state that we are obligated to comply with the bylaws of the state association and that our bylaws will not be in conflict with the state association's bylaws.

The state association has adopted procedures that complement bylaws by providing details not outlined there. Together, the bylaws and procedures provide for the authority and administration of the affairs of the state association.  Recently a procedure was presented for adoption to the board of the state association. As per the state and regional bylaws, the regional association receives funds from the state for regional activities. The proposed procedure defines exact ways the regional association should spend the funds provided to it by the state association. The procedure would require funds be used for activities that take place outside of the region.

Can the state association adopt a procedure that takes precedence over the regional association's bylaws?

The question related to the issue is: Shall the council continue to administer the funding initiative with the support of the donations from the member organizations?

The question related to parliamentary procedure is: Does the chair of the meeting need a motion and a second and is discussion permitted prior to taking the vote?  The current approach to the vote is: the question was raised (not as a motion) at the prior meeting with discussion allowed to follow, there was no motion so the discussion was ended with the idea to use an instructed vote with voting delegates returning to their member organization and presenting the motion there. The report of the voting results by each individual member organization is on the agenda for the next meeting with no discussion being permitted.

It is guidance given to our councils by our chartering organization. The guidance does tell us to conduct the voting as per our bylaws.

1. Definitely asking- with the understanding that any organization that votes "no" is not required to participate in the funding.

2. Council bylaws prohibit the council from legislating for the individual member organizations. The bylaws do not distinguish between instructed votes (as we define them, when related to  taking a district-wide positon on an issue, reviewing or amending the bylaws or requesting money or manpower for a council project) vs. uninstructed votes. Each member organization defers to their own unit bylaws for the instructed vote. The uninstructed vote for routine business and elections is covered in the council bylaws.

3. Understood that the "decision" not being a motion was not proper procedure.

4. As above in my response #2- the council cannot legislate for the member organizations. Thank you for the help on the wording and on the order of business.

Thank you for your responses.

Gary- yes, you did get my meaning. When our council is asking for our individual organizations to contribute funds to a council project -we take what we call an instructed vote that requires the general membership of each member organization to vote on the question. Is there a proper terminology for this type of vote in Robert's Rules?  I am using 11th Edition and could not find it which is one of the reasons I am here.  Is it possible for that to be the motion of the council meeting - that the council is asking each council delegate to return to their individual organization and pose the question because it involves the use of the individual unit's funds?

At the last meeting discussion occurred with it being closed by the decision (not by motion) to use an instructed vote as described above.

At the next meeting, should a motion be offered to the question: does your organization agree to contribute funds for the council project as described? If there is a second, can there be discussion or was the discussion that led to the decision to go to the instructed vote all that was allowable?  Or once the agenda item is reached, does the meeting chair poll the delegates for their votes with the majority ruling?

Our parent group organizations in our school district have a council that meets monthly. One of the roles of the council is to take on district-wide programs and initiatives.  For over 30 years, the council has coordinated the funding of an initiative with each member organization contributing equally. This year, several member organizations have questioned continuing the initiative due to an increase in the share of the funding. A long discussion was held and the chair of the meeting asked each member organization representative to put the question to vote at a general membership meeting of the individual organization. The representatives were directed to return to the next meeting to cast their vote on whether to continue the initiative or not based on the vote of their general membership. 

There was not a motion made before the discussion that led to the chair calling for the instructed vote. My questions is when the meeting is held in order to take the vote on continuing the funding, is a motion required (since each representative made the motion at their individual meetings), should there be a second, and is further discussion allowed?

Also for future reference, we will be taking an instructed vote on another issue later in the school year. Do we need to have a motion to take an instructed vote or does the chair announce the question and state that the business in question requires an instructed vote?