tonyh Posted February 18, 2011 at 09:56 PM Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 at 09:56 PM Hello everyone, I am writing to get clarification of something with regards to Executive session. Our new president(first year) is trying to hold executive meetings to stop me(past president) from attending. This is due to the fact I try to make sure he stays on track and things are done properly and the Officers receive good information before voting on anything.We have a Board of 8 Officers all positions full and are supposed to have 8 board member volunteers known as league commissioners. Each position is a voted on position at the annual elections. The commissioners do not have voting rights. Only the 8 Officers have the power to vote minus the president who is only to vote in case of a tie per our bylaws.We also have association members which I am not clear on, These members pay a small fee to be allowed to vote on major issues such as monitary things over 5000.00 and the right to vote at the elections.So my question is who is allowed to attend an exectutive meeting per the above statements? This is a Private Non profit baseball and softball league. All our meeting are supposed to be public and they are however I am concered with them trying to make everything private by telling only the 8 Officers they are allowed to attend and not letting association members and The Commissioners attend.Its my understanding that all members of the association regardless of voting rights etc. should be allowed to attend even the executive meetings if they wish to.Thank You in advance.A copy of our bylaws can be found here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:01 PM Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:01 PM Hello everyone, I am writing to get clarification of something with regards to Executive session. Our new president(first year) is trying to hold executive meetings to stop me(past president) from attending. This is due to the fact I try to make sure he stays on track and things are done properly and the Officers receive good information before voting on anything.We have a Board of 8 Officers all positions full and are supposed to have 8 board member volunteers known as league commissioners. Each position is a voted on position at the annual elections. The commissioners do not have voting rights. Only the 8 Officers have the power to vote minus the president who is only to vote in case of a tie per our bylaws.We also have association members which I am not clear on, These members pay a small fee to be allowed to vote on major issues such as monitary things over 5000.00 and the right to vote at the elections.So my question is who is allowed to attend an exectutive meeting per the above statements? This is a Private Non profit baseball and softball league. All our meeting are supposed to be public and they are however I am concered with them trying to make everything private by telling only the 8 Officers they are allowed to attend and not letting association members and The Commissioners attend.Its my understanding that all members of the association regardless of voting rights etc. should be allowed to attend even the executive meetings if they wish to.Thank You in advance.A copy of our bylaws can be found hereMembers of the body which is meeting have a right to attend the meetings (RONR p. 625) whether it is in Open Session or Executive Session. So Board members have a right to attend Board meetings. Whether League Commissioners (who don't have voting rights) are extended the rest of the rights is something you all will need to determine for yourselves. See RONR pp. 570-573. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:05 PM Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:05 PM So my question is who is allowed to attend an exectutive meeting per the above statements? So far as RONR is concerned, only members of the board have a right to attend board meetings. The board determines who else may attend. There is no such thing as "non-voting" members in RONR, so it is up to your society to interpret its own Bylaws to determine the rights of such members. See RONR, 10th ed., pgs. 570-573 for some Principles of Interpretation.So under RONR, the eight officers may certainly attend a meeting of the board, the members of the general membership may only attend if the board allows it, and the commissioners are a gray area.All our meeting are supposed to be public and they are however I am concered with them trying to make everything private by telling only the 8 Officers they are allowed to attend and not letting association members and The Commissioners attend.You say that "all of [y]our meetings are supposed to be public." If this statement is based on a rule in your Bylaws, it is up to your society to interpret its own Bylaws. See RONR, 10th ed., pgs. 570-573 for some Principles of Interpretation. If this statement is based on some applicable law, consult a lawyer or contact the office of your state's Secretary of State, as that office typically handles "open meeting laws." The statement is not correct according to RONR.Its my understanding that all members of the association regardless of voting rights etc. should be allowed to attend even the executive meetings if they wish to.This understanding is not correct according to RONR, but your rules or applicable law may provide otherwise.A copy of our bylaws can be found here Interpreting Bylaws is beyond the scope of this forum. If there are rules in your Bylaws which have bearing on this question, it is up to your society to interpret them. See RONR, 10th ed., pgs. 570-573 for some Principles of Interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:07 PM Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:07 PM Members of the body which is meeting have a right to attend the meetings (RONR p. 625) whether it is in Open Session or Executive Session. So Board members have a right to attend Board meetings. Whether League Commissioners (who don't have voting rights) are extended the rest of the rights is something you all will need to determine for yourselves. See RONR pp. 570-573.The Officers and Commissioners all have equal rights except for voting. We are all required to attend sign ups, participate as Officer of the day during the league and such. There is nothing that states they are any different other than they have no right to vote. Each Officer and Commissioner is elected by vote at the annual meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:14 PM Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:14 PM The Officers and Commissioners all have equal rights except for voting.If this is correct, then the commissioners have the right to attend all board meetings, but it doesn't change the status of the general members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:21 PM Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 at 10:21 PM If this is correct, then the commissioners have the right to attend all board meetings, but it doesn't change the status of the general members.Josh it clearly states that the Officers and Commissioners shall meet every third Thursday of the month to present the business of the association. So yes Its pretty clear in that aspect. And the commissioners are also required to participate in everything else that the Officers do. The only difference is they do not get to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted February 19, 2011 at 12:19 AM Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 at 12:19 AM I took an admittedly cursory reading of your bylaws link, and I hasten to add that I am neither inclined nor qualified to interpret them. Nonetheless, I saw this listing of officers: A President B Vice President C Secretary D Treasurer E Community Relations Coordinator F Baseball Coordinator G Softball Coordinator H Equipment ManagerIt did not include past president.I also saw this: D Executive Meetings – the Officers may call a closed-door meeting to address the affairs of the association. What was your question again about the group that you are no longer part of? Seriously, could it be time to let it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh Posted February 19, 2011 at 01:41 AM Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 at 01:41 AM I took an admittedly cursory reading of your bylaws link, and I hasten to add that I am neither inclined nor qualified to interpret them. Nonetheless, I saw this listing of officers: A President B Vice President C Secretary D Treasurer E Community Relations Coordinator F Baseball Coordinator G Softball Coordinator H Equipment ManagerIt did not include past president.I also saw this: D Executive Meetings – the Officers may call a closed-door meeting to address the affairs of the association. What was your question again about the group that you are no longer part of? Seriously, could it be time to let it go?Correct, That is the Executive board. But right below them on Line 2 is the volunteer officers the league commissioners.I'm not debating that these are the Executive Officers who indeed are responsible for the voting. My question is can the other officers(league commissioners) attend an executive meeting since they are indeed also board members who are voted into there position at the annual election and do also take a part in the general operations of the association.I am still a league commissioner and exactly why I am asking. Its pretty simple, either the league commissioners(board members) are entitled to be present or there not. I cannot find anything in RONR that would state they cannot and see more that since they are indeed part of the board should be allowed to attend such meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmtcastle Posted February 19, 2011 at 01:49 AM Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 at 01:49 AM My question is can the other officers(league commissioners) attend an executive meeting since they are indeed also board members who are voted into there position at the annual election and do also take a part in the general operations of the association.It's not at all clear that those "other officers" are also board members.No offense, but your bylaws leave a lot to be desired. And, FWIW, they support my rule of thumb that bylaws that say "one (1)" and "two (2)" are very likely to be poorly written. And you almost ran out of letters in Article XI, Section 1. Or would you continue with "AA", etc.?I can't help but think your bylaws were drafted by someone who was paid by the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh Posted February 19, 2011 at 02:09 AM Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 at 02:09 AM It's not at all clear that those "other officers" are also board members.No offense, but your bylaws leave a lot to be desired. And, FWIW, they support my rule of thumb that bylaws that say "one (1)" and "two (2)" are very likely to be poorly written. And you almost ran out of letters in Article XI, Section 1. Or would you continue with "AA", etc.?I can't help but think your bylaws were drafted by someone who was paid by the word.Funny you should say that Mountcastle, because believe it or not A paid parlimentarian helped do these 2-3 years ago. And the city approved them. There is lots to be done to them in time I'm sure. Not saying I don't agree that its not clear, if it were clear then I wouldn't be asking. LOLSo what I'm asking is by RONR are these league commissioners whom are voted on at the annual elections Considered part of the board. We are required by the bylaws to attend the monthly meeting and participate in every other part of the association that the Officers do, and we are responsible for each individual league and report to the Officers. And are referenced several times with the Officers of the assocition as board members or league commissioners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted February 19, 2011 at 02:59 AM Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 at 02:59 AM So my question is who is allowed to attend an exectutive meeting per the above statements? Per your own rules, only 8 officers can attend executive session of your board, because only 8 officers comprise your board.You have a board of 8.All 8 are officers. No one else.Anyone who isn't one of the 8 officers are not officers, and therefore are not one of the eight sitting members of your board.See your rule 2A."The OFFICERS and volunteer commissioners shall meet the 3rd of every month to present the business to the BOARD OF OFFICERS."You have two SUBSETS OF PEOPLE meeting to present stuff to ONE BODY, namely, your BOARD OF OFFICERS.So, when the body meets, only members OF THAT BODY gets to attend its meetings.Once the other subset "presents its business", the balance of the meeting belongs to the body which is meeting.***Analogy:An organization might have a rule, "Children may present their complaints to the board," or, "The public may address the board during the public forum section of the meeting". Once that subset of people do their thing, that's it for them. They leave. They have no other right to assert.*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted February 19, 2011 at 09:37 AM Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 at 09:37 AM My question is can the other officers(league commissioners) attend an executive meeting since they are indeed also board members who are voted into there position at the annual election and do also take a part in the general operations of the association.You have made it quite clear that your interpretation of the Bylaws is that the league commissioners are members of the board and they have all of the rights of board members except voting. As I have said, if this is the case, they have the right to attend all meetings of the board. Under RONR, members of the board have the right to attend board meetings. There really is nothing further to say on the matter.I can neither confirm nor refute your interpretation of the Bylaws. Interpretation of Bylaws is beyond the scope of this forum and is up to your society. See RONR, 10th ed., pgs. 570-573 for some Principles of Interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted February 19, 2011 at 01:55 PM Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 at 01:55 PM Correct, That is the Executive board. But right below them on Line 2 is the volunteer officers the league commissioners.I'm not debating that these are the Executive Officers who indeed are responsible for the voting. My question is can the other officers(league commissioners) attend an executive meeting since they are indeed also board members who are voted into there position at the annual election and do also take a part in the general operations of the association.I am still a league commissioner and exactly why I am asking. Its pretty simple, either the league commissioners(board members) are entitled to be present or there not. I cannot find anything in RONR that would state they cannot and see more that since they are indeed part of the board should be allowed to attend such meetings.As everyone has said, your bylaws are for your group to interpret. I tried to point out what seems (to me) to be the most basic and germane points. I have a feeling that no matter what is presented here, you'll have a "yeah, but" to. Your (executive) board is defined and given the power to meet in closed session. Seems simple to me.BUT YOU MAY BE RIGHT! Not for us to decide. Try to go to the session, raise a point of order if you're prohibited, and go through the process and see who agrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh Posted February 19, 2011 at 02:34 PM Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 at 02:34 PM As everyone has said, your bylaws are for your group to interpret. I tried to point out what seems (to me) to be the most basic and germane points. I have a feeling that no matter what is presented here, you'll have a "yeah, but" to. Your (executive) board is defined and given the power to meet in closed session. Seems simple to me.BUT YOU MAY BE RIGHT! Not for us to decide. Try to go to the session, raise a point of order if you're prohibited, and go through the process and see who agrees with you.Thanks, That is what we will do then. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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