Voters right to privacy

[gregory]

I'm currently about to submit a bylaw amendment that will require

all membership meeting voting to be conducted by secret ballot. As we all

know when voting for our town Mayor to our U.S. President we vote in a

voting booth to hide our vote and reveal it only if we choose to.

I know RONR speaks to all the different voting methods,

but can anyone tell me the downside to a bylaw amendment that makes

a secret ballot vote a requirement for all MEMBER voting only?

[hmtcastle]

I know RONR speaks to all the different voting methods, but can anyone tell me the downside to a bylaw amendment that makes a secret ballot vote a requirement for all MEMBER voting only?

One downside is the extra time that will be taken (wasted?) if every vote has to be conducted by ballot. Many routine motions (e.g. adjourn) often don't require a vote at all.

[Rob Elsman]

I'm currently about to submit a bylaw amendment that will require

all membership meeting voting to be conducted by secret ballot. As we all

know when voting for our town Mayor to our U.S. President we vote in a

voting booth to hide our vote and reveal it only if we choose to.

I know RONR speaks to all the different voting methods,

but can anyone tell me the downside to a bylaw amendment that makes

a secret ballot vote a requirement for all MEMBER voting only?

What's so secret about voting to take a ten-minute recess? voting to extend the speaker's time by five minutes? voting to turn up the air conditioning a couple of degrees?

[Chris Harrison]

Agreeing with the others I have to wonder why when the situation warrants it a member doesn't just move to hold the vote by ballot? It is not debatable and probably would take less than a minute to decide by majority vote.

[Rev Ed]

I have to agree, you do not really need a ballot vote for every motion. I would suggest some consultation about this, perhaps with a local trained parliamentarian, to make sure the By-law is created the way the members wish.

I take it that you mean the By-law for main motions, rather than every single motion that would come up at a meeting, especially routine ones like approving the Minutes, or adjourning the meeting.

[hmtcastle]

especially routine ones like approving the Minutes

I'm not sure a motion to approve the minutes should be described as "routine".

[gregory]

I have to agree, you do not really need a ballot vote for every motion. I would suggest some consultation about this, perhaps with a local trained parliamentarian, to make sure the By-law is created the way the members wish.

I take it that you mean the By-law for main motions, rather than every single motion that would come up at a meeting, especially routine ones like approving the Minutes, or adjourning the meeting.

REV ED, Good point, My intent was to include only main motions.

I don't see any point in voting by secret ballot to adjourn or to approve the

minutes. I really do need a professional parliamentarians help, I know.

[Gary c Tesser]

"I really do need a professional parliamentarians help, I know."

You do? For this?

[gregory]

"I really do need a professional parliamentarians help, I know."

You do? For this?

I think I do for this, because the Chair is going to challenge every

change to the status quo and this one especially. Here's why. In the

past our Chair and President uses the vote by yea or nay to reveal

everyones vote.

He then discretely rewards some of the members, who vote in favor of motions

that he prefers....he offers them Union committee appointments or misc. Union

work.

[Gary c Tesser]

Yikes, it seems like Undue Pressure Night on the world's premier Internet parliamentary forum. You know Dan Saperstein, by any chance?

[gregory]

Yikes, it seems like Undue Pressure Night on the world's premier Internet parliamentary forum. You know Dan Saperstein, by any chance?

Gary, I don't know Dan Saperstein. Why do you ask?

[hmtcastle]

Why do you ask?

With our own dear Mr. Tesser, it's sometimes best not to ask why.

[Gary c Tesser]

Gary, I don't know Dan Saperstein. Why do you ask?

Comparable stuff, at about the same time:

[Josh Martin]

I know RONR speaks to all the different voting methods, but can anyone tell me the downside to a bylaw amendment that makes a secret ballot vote a requirement for all MEMBER voting only?

The primary downside is the extra time involved. In large assemblies, the extra time involved in taking a ballot may be severe enough that it would deter members from making motions.

Agreeing with the others I have to wonder why when the situation warrants it a member doesn't just move to hold the vote by ballot? It is not debatable and probably would take less than a minute to decide by majority vote.

If this is serious enough that Gregory is considering a bylaw amendment, it is possible that he desires ballot voting in cases where the majority might not want it, or fears that members will be afraid to vote in favor of the motion to vote by ballot (for whatever reason).

Some compromises may involve limiting the classes of business to which the rule applies, or specifying that a ballot vote shall be taken at the demand of some small number of members (ex. one member, 1/5 of the members present and voting, etc.).

REV ED, Good point, My intent was to include only main motions. I don't see any point in voting by secret ballot to adjourn or to approve the minutes. I really do need a professional parliamentarians help, I know.

I have a feeling you really mean "original main motions." A motion to recess, for instance, is considered to be an incidental main motion if it is made while no other motion is pending. See RONR, 10th ed., pgs. 95-97 for more information on the distinction between the two. Many original main motions are also often non-controversial, but it's certainly a big step forward from your previous wording.