Guest Ken Posted June 16, 2011 at 02:33 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 02:33 PM Our Fire Union is looking at trying a new schedule next year as a trial period. We would like to take it to a vote of the members. Because it is so important to everyone and their families, we would like to give everyone an absentee ballot so that everyone has a chance to vote. We would hand these out in July and have them counted in August. Our bylaws do not cover this type of vote and would like to know if Roberts Rules has something on this. Here is a copy of our bylaws for absentee voting. I have also included our bylaws regarding quorum for voting.Article 8: Absentee Voting1. Members in good standing unable to attend a collective bargaining agreement, bylaw change or officer election vote may obtain an absentee ballot from the Secretary/Treasurer up to seven (7) days prior to the vote in accordance with the following provisions:2. The Secretary/Treasurer or his/her designee will issue all absentee ballots.3. All ballots must be printed on official Delta Township Firefighters Union letterhead and delivered to absentee voters in an unsealed Delta Township Firefighters Union envelope.4. The absentee voter shall seal the completed ballot in the envelope provided, sign/endorse across the seal to ensure integrity, and return it to the Secretary/Treasurer.5. Completed absentee ballots must be submitted to the Secretary/Treasurer prior to the start of the meeting. Ballots submitted after the meeting is called to order will not be counted. The Secretary/Treasurer will maintain a complete record of all absentee ballots issued, returned by absentee voters, and those not submitted by the specified deadline.6. Once all absentee ballots have been reconciled against the ballot record, Secretary/Treasurer shall open the sealed envelopes and deposit the completed ballots directly into the ballot box under the supervision of the appointed tellers. Votes shall then be tallied in accordance with the applicable provisions of Articles 9, 10 and 18.7. Absentee votes shall count towards the quorum only for a collective bargaining agreement, bylaw change or officer election vote.3. Quorum Rules:A. Fifty-one percent (51%) of the total membership shall constitute a quorum for the transaction of business at any regular or special meeting. No member may vote by proxy. Absentee votes shall count towards the quorum only for a collective bargaining agreement, bylaw change, or officer election vote in accordance with Article 8. The President shall count towards the quorum, but will abstain from voting except in the event of a tie.B. If a quorum cannot be established due to emergency runs or insufficient attendance, members present may discuss Union business but cannot vote or offer motions.4. The order of business at all regular or special meetings shall be conducted according to Roberts Rules of Order, except the President may deviate from the order of business either in the absence of any objections from a majority of the membership in attendance or motion and majority vote by the membership in attendance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Lages Posted June 16, 2011 at 03:42 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 03:42 PM Ken - RONR discusses voting by mail on pp.409-411 (RONR, 10th ed.) But I don't understand why you say that your bylaws don't cover this type of vote, since you've included a rather detailed section of your bylaws that seem to cover exactly this situation. And, I must say I'm inpressed. Responders on this forum frequently tell people that to authorize things like absentee voting, their bylaws must also spell out the rules as to how this will be done, and it looks to me like you've done just that, in a way that corresponds closely with RONR's procedure for voting by mail. If you just follow your bylaw prescriptions, I don't see what the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted June 16, 2011 at 04:12 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 04:12 PM Well, I suppose the problem may be that this "schedule" they want to try out is not a collective bargaining agreement, bylaw change or officer election vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted June 16, 2011 at 04:15 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 04:15 PM I generally agree with Mr Lages here (as I do when I know what's good for me), except that I do see some problems.[fixed typ]["typo". Albany spaghetti sauce, burn in hell!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted June 16, 2011 at 04:16 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 04:16 PM Type faster, post sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted June 16, 2011 at 04:45 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 04:45 PM Does this new schedule constitute a new collective bargaining agreement? It's certainly not an election of officers, and it does not look like a bylaws change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted June 16, 2011 at 05:29 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 05:29 PM Yeah, it certainly seems that the scenario is covered by the bylaws. They need to get at least 51% of the membership to vote in person, as I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted June 16, 2011 at 05:44 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 05:44 PM Yeah, it certainly seems that the scenario is covered by the bylaws. They need to get at least 51% of the membership to vote in person, as I see it.tc, how do you see this? I don't. (And maybe another example why we are emphatically advised not to opine about bylaws on the world's premier Intermet parliamentary website forum. -- yes, I mean this one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted June 16, 2011 at 09:12 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 09:12 PM Because of the quorum rules. They cannot count absentee ballots towards a quorum unless it's for the 3 things mentioned, which this is not. They need 51% of the membership as a quorum to do business, to have this vote. Not being able to count any of the absentee ballots toward the quorum, the entire 51% comprising the quorum must be present. I got the impression that was the problem: they want everyone to vote, so they're sending out these ballots, but unless they meet their very high quorum requirement, they can't validly hold the vote.A. Fifty-one percent (51%) of the total membership shall constitute a quorum for the transaction of business at any regular or special meeting. No member may vote by proxy. Absentee votes shall count towards the quorum only for a collective bargaining agreement, bylaw change, or officer election vote B. If a quorum cannot be established due to ... insufficient attendance, members present ... cannot vote .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted June 16, 2011 at 11:46 PM Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 at 11:46 PM They cannot count absentee ballots towards a quorum unless it's for the 3 things mentioned, which this is not.Well, we don't know that for sure. A change in work schedule might very well be an amendment to a previously adopted collective bargaining agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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