Voting for multiple positions

[Sean Hunt]

The paragraph on p.427 regarding multiple votes cast in one segment of the ballot is confusing me a little bit; the sentence 'if more than the prescribed number receive a majority vote...' seems applicable only in cumulative voting, yes? Additionally, I don't understand the purpose of the last sentence at all; what is the 'lowest position that would elect'?

[Dan Honemann]

The paragraph on p.427 regarding multiple votes cast in one segment of the ballot is confusing me a little bit; the sentence 'if more than the prescribed number receive a majority vote...' seems applicable only in cumulative voting, yes?

No.

Additionally, I don't understand the purpose of the last sentence at all; what is the 'lowest position that would elect'?

Suppose 100 ballots containing at least one vote each are cast in an election for 3 seats on a board (a total of 300 possible votes), and:

A receives 60

B receives 59

C receives 58

D receives 58

E receives 40

F receives 10

A and B are elected. C and D are tied for the lowest position that would elect, and remain on the next ballot along with E and F.

[Tim Wynn]

The paragraph on p.427 regarding multiple votes cast in one segment of the ballot is confusing me a little bit; the sentence 'if more than the prescribed number receive a majority vote...' seems applicable only in cumulative voting, yes?

Each member gets to cast a vote for each position, but the basis for determining a majority is never higher than the number of ballots cast (i.e. voters). So, many candidates could receive a majority.

[Sean Hunt]

Suppose 100 ballots containing at least one vote each are cast in an election for 3 seats on a board (a total of 300 possible votes), and:

A receives 60

B receives 59

C receives 58

D receives 58

E receives 40

F receives 10

A and B are elected. C and D are tied for the lowest position that would elect, and remain on the next ballot along with E and F.

Ah, okay. So does this mean that in an election for multiple identical positions, multiple votes per person are permitted, and cumulative voting is only when there are more votes than positions to be elected?

Thanks.

[Dan Honemann]

Ah, okay. So does this mean that in an election for multiple identical positions, multiple votes per person are permitted, and cumulative voting is only when there are more votes than positions to be elected?

Thanks.

No, not even close.

[Sean Hunt]

No, not even close.

Okay, I'm clearly confused here.

Let's suppose there are three board memberships up for election, and the positions are identical in nature. Does each person cast three votes simultaneously that are all considered towards election of all three positions as your example suggests, or is there something else going on here that I'm missing? If each person casts votes for each position separately, how can there be a tie above the majority threshold?

[Tim Wynn]

Okay, I'm clearly confused here.

Let's suppose there are three board memberships up for election, and the positions are identical in nature. Does each person cast three votes simultaneously that are all considered towards election of all three positions as your example suggests, or is there something else going on here that I'm missing? If each person casts votes for each position separately, how can there be a tie above the majority threshold?

Each voter gets three votes, but each voter only counts as one in determining the majority.

[Sean Hunt]

Each voter gets three votes, but each voter only counts as one in determining the majority.

Okay. How does this differ from cumulative voting?

[Tim Wynn]

Okay. How does this differ from cumulative voting?

With cumulative voting, you can put all your votes on the same candidate.

[J. J.]

At the risk of offending Dan, here is an example:

Assume that Ms. Roddy, Ms. Peters, Ms. Bettke, Mrs. Caruba and Mr. Flickinger are candidates for three seats on a board. Thirty ballots are cast with at least one vote on it, with the following results:

10 ballots are marked for Roddy, Peters and Bettke.

10 ballots are marked for Roddy, Peters and Flickinger.

5 ballots are marked for Roddy, Peters, and Caruba.

4 ballots are marked for Bettke, Caruba. and Flickinger.

1 ballot for Roddy, Bettke, and Caruba,

Total:

Roddy, 26 votes.

Peters, 25, votes.

Bettke, 15 votes.

Caruba, 10 votes.

Flickinger, 14 votes

In this example, Bettke, who is one of the top three vote getters, is not elected. She gets just under a majority. Roddy and Peters are elected, because both are highest vote getters and have more than a majority. RONR would require that the balloting continue for the third seat, but the balloting would be repeated with Bettke, Caruba and Flickinger on the ballot.

[Josh Martin]

So does this mean that in an election for multiple identical positions, multiple votes per person are permitted, and cumulative voting is only when there are more votes than positions to be elected?

In an election where there are multiple identical positions, a member may cast a number of votes equal to the number of positions available, although each ballot is treated as one vote for the purposes of computing a majority. In the usual case, each vote must be cast for a different candidate. In cumulative voting, a member may "pool" some or all of his votes in support of one candidate.

Cases in which the number of votes per person would exceed the number of positions available would involve either preferential voting, proxy voting, and/or weighted voting. Either that or there's some illegal votes.

[Sean Hunt]

In an election where there are multiple identical positions, a member may cast a number of votes equal to the number of positions available, although each ballot is treated as one vote for the purposes of computing a majority. In the usual case, each vote must be cast for a different candidate. In cumulative voting, a member may "pool" some or all of his votes in support of one candidate.

Cases in which the number of votes per person would exceed the number of positions available would involve either preferential voting, proxy voting, and/or weighted voting. Either that or there's some illegal votes.

Okay, thanks a lot.

Sean

[Guest elliestafford@kw.com]

Here's my question......If 10 candidates are running for 3 positions and voters are allowed to vote for 3 but can't pool votes for a candidate, what happens if a ballot comes in with only 2 votes on it. Should it be discarded?

[Rob Elsman]

Here's my question......If 10 candidates are running for 3 positions and voters are allowed to vote for 3 but can't pool votes for a candidate, what happens if a ballot comes in with only 2 votes on it. Should it be discarded?

The two candidates are credited for a vote. The voter is considered to have partially abstained, which is perfectly acceptable.

[Chris Harrison]

No. Partial abstentions are fine (RONR p. 407 ll. 15-19).

Also, this forum works better when you post your unrelated question (though it may seem to match the topic name) in its own thread rather than tacking it onto a thread that is almost a month old.

[E A Lemoine]

If you can choose 3 candidates and only choose 1, then only 1 vote is cast for that individual. It never pluralize into 3 votes for that individuals.

A partial abstention can be beneficial, as you're not crediting other individuals with one vote which may hurt the chances of a candidate which you may particularly wish to see elected. If there were 10 candidates for 3 positions, and there are 100 voters, that is potentially up to 300 votes cast. A majority would be 51 votes, and it is unlikely if all voters each cast 1 vote that any candidate would achieve that majority. With that in mind, most will cast three votes.