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How to stop a motion that would violate the bylaws


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In a couple of ways, first it violates the chain of command; they were requiring the president of a chapter to contact by letter a person several rungs higher and out of our area a violation that could be punishable by expulsion. Second they were trying to bring in members that do not qualify for membership acording to the bylaws, (ie if a VFW post was trying to bring in members that were not veterans)

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If a motion is made that violates the bylaws, you should make a point of order to that effect. The chairman will rule whether your point of order is well taken and explain why. If you do not agree with his/her ruling, you can appeal and the assembly will decide. A majority vote of the assembly is required to overturn the chairmna's ruling.

If the organization does pass a motion that violates the bylaws, that motion is null and void, even if the chairman rules otherwise. [page 244].

-Bob

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"Motions that conflict with the... bylaws... are out of order, and if... adopted, [are] null and void." (RONR 10th Ed., p. 332 l. 15-18)

"[W]hen the chair rules on a question about which there cannot possibly be two reasonable opinions, an appeal would be dilatory and is not allowed." (RONR 10th Ed. p. 248 l. 28-30)

It would seem to me that the motion should be ruled out of order at the time it is moved, with no appeal allowed. I don't see how there could be two reasonable opinions on the propriety of a motion that conflicts with the bylaws.

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If a motion is made that violates the bylaws, you should make a point of order to that effect. The chairman will rule whether your point of order is well taken and explain why. If you do not agree with his/her ruling, you can appeal and the assembly will decide. A majority vote of the assembly is required to overturn the chairmna's ruling.

If the organization does pass a motion that violates the bylaws, that motion is null and void, even if the chairman rules otherwise. [page 244].

-Bob

If the chairman has ruled on a Point of Order that the motion does not conflict with the bylaws (the Point of Order is not well taken), and no Appeal from the ruling is taken, then the ruling of the chair stands, and the adoption of the motion is valid.

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It would seem to me that the motion should be ruled out of order at the time it is moved, with no appeal allowed. I don't see how there could be two reasonable opinions on the propriety of a motion that conflicts with the bylaws.

The issue the assembly should consider upon Appeal is not whether it is appropriate to adopt a motion which conflicts with the Bylaws (to which the answer is obvious) but whether the motion does, in fact, conflict with the Bylaws. Since we have not seen the motion or the Bylaws, we can't know for sure whether they are in conflict.

I agree that, if possible, the Point of Order should be raised before the motion is disposed of (ideally, right after the motion is made).

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It would seem to me that the motion should be ruled out of order at the time it is moved, with no appeal allowed. I don't see how there could be two reasonable opinions on the propriety of a motion that conflicts with the bylaws.

This is dangerous territory. Keep in mind that the rule on which you are ruminating is a rule like any other, and it is ultimately up to the assembly to determine its proper application. This rule is not a free pass for the chair to thwart the authority of the assembly to decide questions of parliamentary procedure.

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  • 2 years later...
Guest robert kuzmick

Yesterday our organization held it's "annual member meeting" Our bylaws specifically require a minimum of 10 days notice to all members for "all proposals to come before the meeting".  Over the objection of a member, our chair allowed a vote to be taken (motion was passed by a majority of those present, but not by a majority of the members) without meeting this bylaw requirement for prior notice.  While the proposal itself did not violate any provision of the bylaws, it would seem to me that this was a fundamental breach of fairness in that those who were not present (about 70 % of the membership - our quorum for this meeting is only 15% of the membership) were denied any opportunity to debate or vote on the proposal.  Is the motion passed without the prior notice required by the bylaws valid?  Thoughts? 

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I would like to know the procedure to kill a motion that if passed and implimented would violate the existing bylaws. There would not be the option to amend the bylaws before the vote because the vote is being taken a at level that does not have the authority to change the bylaws.

If you begin another thread on the same topic, will you please quote from RR-11 instead of RR-10 so that I don't have to buy the latter version?  Thanks for your cooperation.

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If you begin another thread on the same topic, will you please quote from RR-11 instead of RR-10 so that I don't have to buy the latter version?  Thanks for your cooperation.

 

The guest robert kuzmick quoted from the 10th edition?  Not that I can see. Neither did sandmanmvc.

 

However, the 10th edition is the edition being referenced in the discussion in this thread because this thread is three years old.  It predates the release of the 11th edition  by about five days.  This thread was started on September 18, 2011 and the 11th edition was not released until September 23, 2011, at the NAP convention in St Petersburg, FL.  I don't think you have to worry about the old timers on here quoting from the 10th edition unless it is to contrast a change between it and the 11th edition.  :)

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