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Limiting debate during consideration by paragraph


Sean Hunt

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You can't move Limit or Extend Limits of Debate or the Previous Question on a specific paragraph when considering a motion by paragraph (citation omitted due to version confusion). You can, however, move the Previous Question on the motion as a whole.

First off, is there anything that makes this rule not suspendable? I don't see any particular reason why it couldn't be suspended, except that suspending it would defeat its purpose (since the motion to suspend the rules is similar enough to the disallowed motions).

Second, is there any other recourse for a member wishing to limit debate on a specific paragraph? Can Limit or Extend Limits of Debate be applied to the paragraphs together, as in "I move that debate on each paragraph be limited to one hour" or "I move that each member be allowed to speak only once to each paragraph"?

Thanks.

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First off, is there anything that makes this rule not suspendable?

Well, I don't think the rules could be suspended so as to order the Previous Question on a particular paragraph, since the effect of the Previous Question is to bring a motion to a vote. Therefore, it can't be logically used when there is nothing to vote on. A similar effect could be accomplished, however, by suspending the rules so that debate and amendment would be ended for a particular paragraph.

Second, is there any other recourse for a member wishing to limit debate on a specific paragraph? Can Limit or Extend Limits of Debate be applied to the paragraphs together, as in "I move that debate on each paragraph be limited to one hour" or "I move that each member be allowed to speak only once to each paragraph"?

The book is not entirely clear on this, but I think such a motion would be in order. The reason Limit or Extend Limits of Debate cannot be applied to a single paragraph, as I understand it, is because subsidiary motions are applied to motions (not to parts of motions).

Another option, of course, is for an assembly to adopt customized rules on the subject.

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I see no reason why this rule could not be suspended in the usual manner. In fact, this rule seems to be a direct reversal of the opposite rule as stated in PL, p. 164, ll. 16-18. It looks like the change happened sometime between the 7th edition (which does not seem to say anything one way or the other) and the 10th edition (which has the same rule as the current edition).

As for the propriety of the two suggested example motions, I think it would depend upon the exact meaning and intent of the rule in question...which currently elude me.

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I see no reason why this rule could not be suspended in the usual manner. In fact, this rule seems to be a direct reversal of the opposite rule as stated in PL, p. 164, ll. 16-18. It looks like the change happened sometime between the 7th edition (which does not seem to say anything one way or the other) and the 10th edition (which has the same rule as the current edition).

As for the propriety of the two suggested example motions, I think it would depend upon the exact meaning and intent of the rule in question...which currently elude me.

PL, p. 164, ll. 16-18 DOES contain the same rule as RONR (11th ed.), p. 279, ll. 23-26.

Is that what you said? :blink:

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PL, p. 164, ll. 16-18 DOES contain the same rule as RONR (11th ed.), p. 279, ll. 23-26.

Is that what you said? :blink:

It's possible I've lost my marbles, but it seems to me the following two rules are totally opposite:

"The previous question and motions to limit or extend the limits of debate may be applied to amendments of a single paragraph." - PL, p. 164, ll. 16-18

"The Previous Question and Limit or Extend Limits of Debate can be applied to amendments or to the entire document but not to the individual paragraphs." - RONR, p. 279, ll. 23-26

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OK, I can see now that the quote from PL could have two different meanings, depending on the emphasis.

I'm reading it as "The previous question and motions to limit or extend the limits of debate may be applied to amendments of a single paragraph."

The other reading would be as "The previous question and motions to limit or extend the limits of debate may be applied to amendments of a single paragraph."

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OK, I can see now that the quote from PL could have two different meanings, depending on the emphasis.

I'm reading it as "The previous question and motions to limit or extend the limits of debate may be applied to amendments of a single paragraph."

The other reading would be as "The previous question and motions to limit or extend the limits of debate may be applied to amendments of a single paragraph."

I'm fairly certain the latter reading is the accurate one.

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You can't move Limit or Extend Limits of Debate or the Previous Question on a specific paragraph when considering a motion by paragraph (citation omitted due to version confusion). You can, however, move the Previous Question on the motion as a whole.

First off, is there anything that makes this rule not suspendable? I don't see any particular reason why it couldn't be suspended, except that suspending it would defeat its purpose (since the motion to suspend the rules is similar enough to the disallowed motions).

Second, is there any other recourse for a member wishing to limit debate on a specific paragraph? Can Limit or Extend Limits of Debate be applied to the paragraphs together, as in "I move that debate on each paragraph be limited to one hour" or "I move that each member be allowed to speak only once to each paragraph"?

Thanks.

In lieu of what you are suggesting, I think the proper procedure to obtain the desired effects is to adopt a preliminary main motion that prescribes exactly how the original main motion is to be considered. Since it is likely that such a preliminary main motion would have the effect of suspending the rules, it would require a two-thirds vote for adoption.

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OK, I can see now that the quote from PL could have two different meanings, depending on the emphasis.

I'm reading it as "The previous question and motions to limit or extend the limits of debate may be applied to amendments of a single paragraph."

The other reading would be as "The previous question and motions to limit or extend the limits of debate may be applied to amendments of a single paragraph."

The way I read it, the Previous Question is applied to amendments… not to a single paragraph.

Marbles or not, Dan, it's good to see you on the Forum. :)

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It's been a long, long time. I blame the 11th Edition for drawing me back in, with some help from a young local aspiring parliamentarian who keeps asking questions. ;)

Thanks for coming back Mr. Lynch - you've been sorely missed!

I'm beginning to feel like we're having some sort of reunion. :)

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