Unclear motions

[wdatfab]

Here is the scenerio. The agenda under old business "Discuss pending litigation". Our school has a couple pending cases. Superantendant discussed how the board has put considerable time into "this" and they need to make a decision. He never mentioned what case they need to make a decision on or gave any kind of recomendation. Board member A says "I make a motion that we go for it" member B says "I'll second". Immediately after the second the board secretary did a roll call vote. There was no discussion nor did the board President even speak until his name was called for his vote. My questions Is this a legal motion? What is the procedure if this was illegal? Is the motion and vote valid? According to the minutes they claim to have voted on appealing a certain court case. If this was addressed elsewhere I apologizefor a repost.

[Chris Harrison]

Nothing in RONR prohibits a body from adopting a motion even though they don't have the first clue what they are agreeing to. So yeah the motion is valid and it is up to the Board to figure out what "it" is and after they figure that out they should amend the adopted motion to reflect what "it" is. See RONR pp. 305-310 for details on that.

[Rob Elsman]

Apparently, the proposal was perfectly clear to the members, since no one seems to have raised a question about it at the time. See RONR (11th ed.), p. 488, ll. 9-15.

[David A Foulkes]

It might be helpful to mention to wdatfab (if s/he returns) that while there may be no continuing breach here, there were a number of apparent procedural mis-steps along the way (taking his/her post as an accurate recounting of what happened) and that this could have been handled much better. It would be a good idea if s/he got hands on RONR-IB for starters.

[wdatfab]

Thank you for the replies. One of you comfirm what we have suspected and that is that the board had discussed this prior to the meeting.

[wdatfab]

Forgot to add. I know that they did not follow procedure. I was just an audience member and not on the board. The accounting is accurate. Most in the audience were trying to figure out just what the board was voting on, one person even commented what was "go for it" are we ordering pizza. It was definately handled poorly but so is most of our board meetings, but what recourse do we have when a majority of the board is "in" on the shenanigans. They have their own agenda and the will of the public be darned. We have slowly been voting them out as they come up for reelection, one more to go. Any advice as to if we can make any positive changes by their lack of following procedure I would greatly appreciate it. They have adopted Robert's Rules for their meetings. Thanks again

[dglynch]

According to Robert's, non-members of the board have no rights and no say in the conduct of board meetings. However, the general membership may choose to initiate disciplinary proceedings against the offending board members, as described in FAQ #20.

If this is some sort of public board, like a school board, with no general membership other than the citizens of the local community, there may be various laws, etc., that are applicable, and you could contact a lawyer about this.

[tctheatc]

They have their own agenda and the will of the public be darned. We have slowly been voting them out as they come up for reelection, one more to go.

Voting them out sounds good. But if there's only one to go, why isn't that one a small minority unable to continue the shenanigans? Curious.

[David A Foulkes]

Thank you for the replies. One of you comfirm what we have suspected and that is that the board had discussed this prior to the meeting.

Well, there's no rule against this, and such pre-meeting discussions can often lead to a savings of time at the meeting, as long as decisions aren't actually made (such as would require voting at a properly called meeting). Still, the meeting could have, and should have, been handled better. If this is how the run meetings while guests are watching, one can only imagine what goes on when no one is watching.

[Gary Novosielski]

Here is the scenerio. The agenda under old business "Discuss pending litigation". Our school has a couple pending cases. Superantendant discussed how the board has put considerable time into "this" and they need to make a decision. He never mentioned what case they need to make a decision on or gave any kind of recomendation. Board member A says "I make a motion that we go for it" member B says "I'll second". Immediately after the second the board secretary did a roll call vote. There was no discussion nor did the board President even speak until his name was called for his vote. My questions Is this a legal motion? What is the procedure if this was illegal? Is the motion and vote valid? According to the minutes they claim to have voted on appealing a certain court case. If this was addressed elsewhere I apologizefor a repost.

It is entirely likely that the details of the case were discussed in executive session, as would not be unusual for pending litigation, so the members may have already discussed it, or at least have received more detailed information about it, out of earshot of the public.

[David A Foulkes]

It is entirely likely that the details of the case were discussed in executive session, as would not be unusual for pending litigation, so the members may have already discussed it, or at least have received more detailed information about it, out of earshot of the public.

Yeah, but still, at the "public" meeting they could have done better than "let's go for it." I can see them giving each other chest bumps and high fives, too.

[Tim Wynn]

Apparently, the proposal was perfectly clear to the members, since no one seems to have raised a question about it at the time. See RONR (11th ed.), p. 488, ll. 9-15.

Once again, I fear you've overestimated the understanding of the average member, which, I'm confident, is a byproduct of your own understanding being considerably above average.

[wdatfab]

According to the rules a motion should be clearly stated as it is made in this case the motion would have been correct if stated member A "I make a motion that we appeal the district courts rulling concerning our lawsuit with the AEA" at which point member B could have seconded the motion. The chair should have then clearly stated the motion and asked for discussion, if no discussion then proceeded to a vote. The board did meet in closed session a month prior to this meeting. The reason for the meeting was to discuss legal matters with council. In our state of Iowa any discussion concerning this between the board members is to take place in open session and also any action that is to take place is also to happen in open session. I am fairly well versed in the basic rules of procedure. I really don't have much knowledge on what one is to do when the rules are not followed. I spent years in high school in FFA and was VP and President for 2 years we really worked to have our procedure correct,plus I attend compititions on procedure. I have knowledge of what to do as a board member when procedure is not followed but I am lost as to what the public can do about it. The board should be self governing on this issue but chooses not to since their actions support their personal views. Are their any actions that we the public can take to correct this? I am attending another board meeting tonight and think I will address their lack of procedure. Thanks for commenting, I appreciate them.

[Rob Elsman]

According to the rules a motion should be clearly stated as it is made in this case the motion would have been correct if stated member A "I make a motion that we appeal the district courts rulling concerning our lawsuit with the AEA" at which point member B could have seconded the motion. The chair should have then clearly stated the motion and asked for discussion, if no discussion then proceeded to a vote. The board did meet in closed session a month prior to this meeting. The reason for the meeting was to discuss legal matters with council. In our state of Iowa any discussion concerning this between the board members is to take place in open session and also any action that is to take place is also to happen in open session. I am fairly well versed in the basic rules of procedure. I really don't have much knowledge on what one is to do when the rules are not followed. I spent years in high school in FFA and was VP and President for 2 years we really worked to have our procedure correct,plus I attend compititions on procedure. I have knowledge of what to do as a board member when procedure is not followed but I am lost as to what the public can do about it. The board should be self governing on this issue but chooses not to since their actions support their personal views. Are their any actions that we the public can take to correct this? I am attending another board meeting tonight and think I will address their lack of procedure. Thanks for commenting, I appreciate them.

You might wish to take this up with an attorney in Iowa who is trained in the open meeting laws in Iowa to see if there has been a violation and determine what, if any, legal remedy an ordinary citizen may seek in the courts.