20% petition called for Special Meeting

[Noelgroup]

We are a small condo association (bylaws and docs are in pretty good shape (have adopted RONR) other than the fact they allow voting by proxy which is heavily used here as most owners are out of town and 2nd homes). After 2 years of heated discussions, surveys, 'straw polls' and empty promises regarding a change in our bylaws to increase the unit rental cap from 5 to 10 units (which the current board is openly against any change), 20% of the membership got together to request a meeting where an actual vote could be taken. We signed the peition, got legal advice on the agenda and wording for changes to the declaration, created a limited proxy and submitted these papers to the board for their verification etc. We chose a date and location within the building.

The board have refused to discuss or contact any of us over the last 2 months and proceeded to send out general letters to all members decrying our efforts and branding us as unauthorized, illegal and trouble makers.

They have now issued agenda and a general proxy for a Special Meeting on a different date, and the agenda calls for lots of " discussion of possibility of amending" - "discussion of alternative language" -"discussion and recommendations for" but no actual decisions or votes mentioned anywhere. And the general proxy is being solicited for quorum purposes and, as in the past, will be used to block or push through any vote according ot the board's wishes.

I have RONR 11th and am trying to find some supporting clauses that at least will help us to call for a vote at this meeting - but I am conscious of the rulings that state you must follow the wording on the agenda.....

Or is there a parliamentarian out there who might be willing to be commissioned for an opinion for us to help in our future battles? (We have all controlling docs, NC statutes and agenda notices on pdf for easy sending)

many thanks!

[jstackpo]

Presuming that the 20% meets your bylaw requirements for special meetings, it sounds as though you may be going to court to get your meeting. RONR can't help when folks misbehave (and you can't get a meeting up to discipline them - Chapter XX).

As to your last request...

If you anticipate that you might

have continuing parliamentary

difficulties or problems you

might want to get in touch with

a real live professional

parliamentarian in your area

(not virtual ones like us)

for consultations.

Contact either (or both) the ...

National Association of Parliamentarians

213 South Main St.

Independence, MO 64050-3850

Phone: 888-627-2929

Fax: 816-833-3893;

e-mail: hq@NAP2.org

<<www.parliamentarians.org>>

or

American Institute of Parliamentarians

550M Ritchie Highway #271

Severna Park, MD 21146

Phone: 888-664-0428

Fax: 410-544-4640

e-mail: aip@aipparl.org

<<www.aipparl.org>>

for a reference or information.

[Trina]

...20% of the membership got together to request a meeting where an actual vote could be taken. We signed the peition, got legal advice on the agenda and wording for changes to the declaration, created a limited proxy and submitted these papers to the board for their verification etc. We chose a date and location within the building.

The board have refused to discuss or contact any of us over the last 2 months and proceeded to send out general letters to all members decrying our efforts and branding us as unauthorized, illegal and trouble makers.

They have now issued agenda and a general proxy for a Special Meeting on a different date, and the agenda calls for lots of " discussion of possibility of amending" - "discussion of alternative language" -"discussion and recommendations for" but no actual decisions or votes mentioned anywhere. And the general proxy is being solicited for quorum purposes and, as in the past, will be used to block or push through any vote according ot the board's wishes.

I have RONR 11th and am trying to find some supporting clauses that at least will help us to call for a vote at this meeting - but I am conscious of the rulings that state you must follow the wording on the agenda.....

RONR does not support the idea of a special meeting called for 'discussion only.' Also, the rule isn't exactly that you must follow the 'wording on the agenda' -- rather, a special meeting is 'only to consider one or more items of business specified in the call of the meeting.' (RONR 11th ed. p.91 ll. 30-31). 'Discussion only' is not 'business' in the world of RONR.

You may want to look over this earlier thread for some ideas:

http://robertsrules....called-meeting/

And possibly this one:

http://robertsrules.forumflash.com/index.php?/topic/6577-special-meeting-notice/

Note that the citations in those threads are from the 10th edition, but you should generally be able to find corresponding language in the 11th fairly easily (the overall layout of the book has remained the same).

(This is not meant in any way to contradict Mr. Stackpole's suggestion about continuing to work to call your own special meeting.)

[BryanSullo]

As the board "works for" the membership, I assume you can go ahead with your meeting without any board members present. (I'm also assuming the membership has the authority to call a special meeting, and that it has been called properly, etc.)

[rant]I am so glad that I don't own property that's part of an association. They sound like horrible, evil things that fill folks' heads with delusions of power over their neighbors.[/rant]

[Bill McMannis]

...

[rant]I am so glad that I don't own property that's part of an association. They sound like horrible, evil things that fill folks' heads with delusions of power over their neighbors.[/rant]

Actually, when a community works together, this can be an excellent way for a neighborhood to be managed. As is the case with high-rise units, there is really no other way to manage the community. Bumps in the road may occur, but IF these are handled as the community's bylaws read, the state statutes and RONR things can work to everyone's benefit over the long haul. In many cases in North Carolina, the membership can petition for the meeting, but the meeting is called by the board after the petition signatures are confirmed as valid. The board then needs to comply with timetables dictated for proper notice. Egos and impatience are often the source of many misunderstandings.

Sometimes things may take a little more time than some members of the community would like, but in the long run, what is a week in the scope of community?

[Trina]

...

Sometimes things may take a little more time than some members of the community would like, but in the long run, what is a week in the scope of community?

Whatever else is going on in this particular situation, a week is a lot shorter than two years (the total elapsed time mentioned in the original post).

Are you speaking, specifically, about the same situation described by the original poster?

[Bill McMannis]

Whatever else is going on in this particular situation, a week is a lot shorter than two years (the total elapsed time mentioned in the original post).

Are you speaking, specifically, about the same situation described by the original poster?

Yes, I think the original poster is involved in the same community that I am. Absolutely, this is a contentious issue which was voted on three years ago. At that time membership voted for no change. Since then, several units have changed hands and, of course, the economy is not what it was when the last vote occurred.

The group, after much discussion, finally submitted a petition which the board admitted represented 20% of the shares of the community. (Each unit does not have a vote in this community but a portion of the undivided interested in the common elements. Each unit's voting shares range from 0.865 to 1.513.)

Now that the 20% made the call, it is the Board's responsibility to call the meeting. The petitioners wanted to meet 11/5, after consulting with counsel, the Board called the meeting 11/12 to prepare the proposed agenda, proxies and secure a meeting place.

The meeting scheduled for November 12 will be an excellent opportunity for debate and voting on change. Changes to the bylaws require 67% of the shares to be voted in favor of change.

[Noelgroup]

Trina - thanks for the very useful links to previous discussions. It is interesting that Mr McMannis should input into this posting as he is the Condo Association's Property Manager and has also been selected by the president to chair this Special Meeting with the confusing agenda full of 'discussion of possibilty of amending....' and 'discussion of alternative language for....'.

I wonder if that prior selection of a presiding officer (made outside of any board or association meeting) qualifies as 'unilateraly invoking special orders' as mentioned in Trina's previous selected postings....... Surely the decision for who presides over the meeting is up to the assembly once gathered?

And the members are confused by the agenda and cannot see where there might be a vote on the 4 separate topics being mentioned.... and not helped at all by the sending out of a general proxy with the notice (the 20% petition asked for a limited proxy to be used).

[Sean Hunt]

Trina - thanks for the very useful links to previous discussions. It is interesting that Mr McMannis should input into this posting as he is the Condo Association's Property Manager and has also been selected by the president to chair this Special Meeting with the confusing agenda full of 'discussion of possibilty of amending....' and 'discussion of alternative language for....'.

I wonder if that prior selection of a presiding officer (made outside of any board or association meeting) qualifies as 'unilateraly invoking special orders' as mentioned in Trina's previous selected postings....... Surely the decision for who presides over the meeting is up to the assembly once gathered?

A special general meeting, like any other general meeting, should be presided over by whoever your bylaws state should preside over it. Normally this is the President. Unless there is law (real law) to the contrary, then the assembly can Suspend the Rules and have someone else preside.

And the members are confused by the agenda and cannot see where there might be a vote on the 4 separate topics being mentioned.... and not helped at all by the sending out of a general proxy with the notice (the 20% petition asked for a limited proxy to be used).

You have to follow whatever proxy requirements are set out in your bylaws or the respective procedural law. It seems to me unlikely that the President could decide what the rules regarding proxies are.