Is this correct procedure per RONR

[gregory]

The following motion was made and seconded at our membership meeting.

XXX XXXXX made a motion to vote by secret ballot to rescind the current

Assessment Fee because of the recent $4.00 increase in our dues.

We were first forced to vote to determine if we wanted to vote by secret ballot,

then secondly we will be voting on the motion to rescind the assessement fee.

Is this correct procedure. Why can't we just vote once by secret ballot to

rescind the assessment fee on the motion as written?

[Tim Wynn]

The following motion was made and seconded at our membership meeting.

XXX XXXXX made a motion to vote by secret ballot to rescind the current

Assessment Fee because of the recent $4.00 increase in our dues.

We were first forced to vote to determine if we wanted to vote by secret ballot,

then secondly we will be voting on the motion to rescind the assessement fee.

Is this correct procedure. Why can't we just vote once by secret ballot to

rescind the assessment fee on the motion as written?

A lot of time can be wasted on voting by ballot if the assembly doesn't want to use that method of voting, so the assembly deserves a say in how the vote will be conducted.

[Trina]

The following motion was made and seconded at our membership meeting.

XXX XXXXX made a motion to vote by secret ballot to rescind the current

Assessment Fee because of the recent $4.00 increase in our dues.

We were first forced to vote to determine if we wanted to vote by secret ballot,

then secondly we will be voting on the motion to rescind the assessement fee.

Is this correct procedure. Why can't we just vote once by secret ballot to

rescind the assessment fee on the motion as written?

Because the assembly had not yet decided by what method to conduct the vote on the assessment fee (assuming you don't routinely conduct all your votes by secret ballot for some reason).

How else would you choose a different-than-usual method of voting... other than by voting on a motion to choose a different method of voting?

Looking back at your description of the motion that was made, the confusion most likely lies in the phrasing of the motion. The actual motion should have been to rescind the assessment fee. While that question was pending, an incidental motion to vote by secret ballot would have been appropriate (and less confusing to the assembly, probably).

[Sean Hunt]

The following motion was made and seconded at our membership meeting.

XXX XXXXX made a motion to vote by secret ballot to rescind the current

Assessment Fee because of the recent $4.00 increase in our dues.

We were first forced to vote to determine if we wanted to vote by secret ballot,

then secondly we will be voting on the motion to rescind the assessement fee.

Is this correct procedure. Why can't we just vote once by secret ballot to

rescind the assessment fee on the motion as written?

It is correct that the assembly voted on whether or not to vote by ballot. However, the correct way to do this is to move the rescindment of the fee, and then subsequently move to hold the vote by ballot. If you weren't given the opportunity to debate on the motion to rescind the fee, or if you were told that the motion to rescind the fee would not be voted on had the motion to vote by ballot been defeated, then the procedure was incorrectly applied. See RONR. pp. 283-285.

[Burke Balch]

Gregory raised essentially the same question on another thread a while back. I am sorry that he did not understand the answer given him then. It is nonsense -- utter nonsense -- to think that making a motion can have the same effect as adopting a motion. He wants to combine two motions -- a motion to Rescind and a motion to vote on that very same motion -- the motion to Rescind -- by secret ballot. But just because someone makes a motion to vote by secret ballot doesn't mean that the assembly votes by secret ballot -- the motion to vote by secret ballot has to be adopted first. So the vote on the motion to Rescind would not be taken by secret ballot unless separately and first the voting body adopted a motion to vote on it by secret ballot. It comes down to this: you can't, just by making a motion and putting words into that motion indicating what method of voting you'd like to see used in voting on it, dictate to the assembly that it must use that method in voting on the motion.

We were first forced to vote to determine if we wanted to vote by secret ballot,

then secondly we will be voting on the motion to rescind the assessement fee.

That procedure was exactly correct.

[Dan Honemann]

So the vote on the motion to Rescind would not be taken by secret ballot unless separately and first the voting body adopted a motion to vote on it by secret ballot. It comes down to this: you can't, just by making a motion and putting words into that motion indicating what method of voting you'd like to see used in voting on it, dictate to the assembly that it must use that method in voting on the motion.

I agree entirely with the emphasis being placed on separately, which is really the crucial point.

[Guest Edgar]

Gregory raised essentially the same question on another thread a while back.

And if the previous discussion is of any help, I think this is the thread.

[gregory]

Robert,

There were actually two separates issues, one was to amend our bylaws where the motion to amend was stated

and seconded and a separate motion to amend the amendment was made to vote by secret ballot. The second

situation was the one most recently posted where I also made a motion where the secret ballot language was

included in the main motion....I move to vote by secret ballot to rescind the assessment fee.

I guess what I'm not understanding is the concept of a incidental motion. Can you give me the proper

phrasing for a motion to rescind where I also wish to vote by secret ballot?

Thanks.

[Sean Hunt]

Robert,

There were actually two separates issues, one was to amend our bylaws where the motion to amend was stated

and seconded and a separate motion to amend the amendment was made to vote by secret ballot. The second

situation was the one most recently posted where I also made a motion where the secret ballot language was

included in the main motion....I move to vote by secret ballot to rescind the assessment fee.

I guess what I'm not understanding is the concept of a incidental motion. Can you give me the proper

phrasing for a motion to rescind where I also wish to vote by secret ballot?

Thanks.

You would first move your motion to rescind. Then, once the chair states the motion, you would rise seeking recognition. As the mover of the motion, you are entitled to preference in recognition; you would then say "I move that the vote on the motion be taken by ballot." Once that motion is dealt with, you would continue in debate on the main question.

Note, however, that you don't need to make that motion right away; such a motion is in order up until the time the chair declares the result - even after a vote has been taken, it is in order to move that the vote be retaken by an alternate method.

[Dan Honemann]

Note, however, that you don't need to make that motion right away; such a motion is in order up until the time the chair declares the result - even after a vote has been taken, it is in order to move that the vote be retaken by an alternate method.

This statement about such a motion being in order up until the time the chair declares the result goes a bit too far, since the motion will certainly not be in order once voting has begun (although it will again be in order immediately after the chair has reported the result). I'm confident that Mr. Hunt did not mean to imply that voting could be interrupted for this purpose.

A careful read of Section 30 of RONR (11th ed.) is recommended, particularly (for old hands) the new paragraphs on pages 285-86.