Voting

[Guest Og Levant]

In a 2/3 majority vote for removing an officer if the fianal count is 3 for; 2 against and 7 abstain. does this vote pass or fail?

[Chris Harrison]

This isn't a question of parliamentary procedure but of 6th grade math.

[Guest Edgar]

In a 2/3 majority vote for removing an officer if the fianal count is 3 for; 2 against and 7 abstain. does this vote pass or fail?

It fails, but not because of the abstentions.

The easiest way to determine whether a two-thirds vote has been achieved is to see if there are at least twice as many "yes" votes as "no" votes.

[Guest Guest]

First, abstentions are disregarded -- RONR, s. 44.

That leaves 3 affirmative votes out of 5 total votes. That is 60%, which is less than 2/3, so the vote fails.

[Guest teri]

Not sure if I am doing this correctly but here goes - once a ballot is cast and it passes, can the vote be recinded within the same meeting? Or would it have to be posted for the agenda for the next open meeting?

[Trina]

Not sure if I am doing this correctly but here goes - once a ballot is cast and it passes, can the vote be recinded within the same meeting? Or would it have to be posted for the agenda for the next open meeting?

The motion to reconsider could be used later in the same meeting. That motion has to be made by someone who voted on the prevailing side.

It would be best to post a new thread with your new question (click on 'Start New Topic').

[David A Foulkes]

The motion to reconsider could be used later in the same meeting. That motion has to be made by someone who voted on the prevailing side.

Couldn't a motion to Rescind be moved at the same meeting, and by any member present regardless of his/her previous vote?

[Bruce Lages]

David:

I think I raised that same possibility a long time ago (probably in the old forum) and although I don't remember the specific responses, I think they were less than clearly in the affirmative. But - I wonder - would moving to rescind a motion already passed in the same session violate the rule against asking the assembly to consider the same question twice in the same session? Certainly doing this in the reverse manner - rejecting a motion and then moving the same motion again - would be a clear violation of that rule. Or, is there a more specific difference between these two scenarios?

[Guest bNancy N.]

David: - I wonder - ?

First, I don't think Bruce Lages raised any possibility a long time ago because Bruce wasn't alive a long time ago. More to the point, I respectfully disagree, to my regret: I think the answer is clearly yes, per p. 307 in the shiny new one-volume book, lines 19 - 22, especially lines 20 - 21.

Bruce's objection is finely parsed on p. 84, lines 4 - 8 -- I emphasize "without adopting it" as key; see also p. 88, lines 15 - 18; and 336, lines 7 - 11 (never mind line 12 -- I'll tell you about p. 74 - 75 mlysef); and principle (a) ((hey, why no goggles-face? Mr Balch, help! Fix it!)) on p. 75, with emphasis on "hot special procedures."

(tangentially note at this point that I have often used p. 75 ( c ) to claim that a unanimous vote can only be overturned if more members join the organization. But who listens?)

[David A Foulkes]

( But who listens?)

Ummm................................. sorry, what?

[Trina]

Not sure if I am doing this correctly but here goes - once a ballot is cast and it passes, can the vote be recinded within the same meeting? Or would it have to be posted for the agenda for the next open meeting?

Returning to Guest_teri's question... Teri, is your question about the technical correctness of making a motion to rescind during the same meeting during which the motion was adopted? That is the issue that Mr. Foulkes and the subsequent posters are discussing.

Or, is the question simply whether the assembly can revisit the same question, during the same meeting, and vote on it again? That goal can be met if someone on the prevailing side makes a motion to reconsider. If the assembly adopts the motion to reconsider (majority vote), then the question is again before the assembly, as if it had never been voted on in the first place. In the case of a vote by secret ballot, one relies on the honesty of the member who makes the motion to reconsider (since he makes the claim that he voted on the prevailing side during the ballot vote).

[Bruce Lages]

Nancy - thanks for the multiple references. You've convinced me that rescind is certainly in order during the same session.

[jstackpo]

It cetainly is. The "advantage" that reconsider has over "rescind", is that the formr requires only a majority vote to adopt. Rescind requires a higher vote threshold since it isn't possible to give prior notice at the "same meeting".

[Chris Harrison]

It cetainly is. The "advantage" that reconsider has over "rescind", is that the formr requires only a majority vote to adopt. Rescind requires a higher vote threshold since it isn't possible to give prior notice at the "same meeting".

...Though if a member missed the bus and didn't vote (or change his vote) with the prevailing side he can't move to Reconsider. However, since Rescind can also be adopted with a majority of the entire membership it might work (almost) as well as Reconsider if the organization or Board is small enough and a vast majority of their members attend the meetings

[Shmuel Gerber]

First, I don't think Bruce Lages raised any possibility a long time ago because Bruce wasn't alive a long time ago. More to the point, I respectfully disagree, to my regret: I think the answer is clearly yes, per p. 307 in the shiny new one-volume book, lines 19 - 22, especially lines 20 - 21.

Bruce's objection is finely parsed on p. 84, lines 4 - 8 -- I emphasize "without adopting it" as key; see also p. 88, lines 15 - 18; and 336, lines 7 - 11 (never mind line 12 -- I'll tell you about p. 74 - 75 mlysef); and principle (a) ((hey, why no goggles-face? Mr Balch, help! Fix it!)) on p. 75, with emphasis on "hot special procedures."

(tangentially note at this point that I have often used p. 75 ( c ) to claim that a unanimous vote can only be overturned if more members join the organization. But who listens?)

A fine exegesis of hermeneutical calisthenics. I might add that RONR (11th ed.) also explicitly addresses the point on pages 111-112, Item No. 3: "... at any time before or after it is too late to reconsider it ..."

Although, truth is, principle (a) on page 75 (hot or otherwise) seemingly has nothing to with Bruce's question, since principle (a) states that the "special procedures" are required in order for the assembly to bring up a question again during the same session. It should thus be clear that rescission of an adopted motion, which is a procedure that can be applied just as well at a future session, is not part of the "special procedures" referred to in principle (a) -- although it requires "something more" (per principle [c]) to agree to it.