llexvold Posted November 22, 2011 at 01:58 PM Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 at 01:58 PM In our Congregations Constitution and By-laws we adopted many years ago to use "Roberts Rules". In a recent Voters Meeting...a Question and Answer session was held with the Interim Pastor. (The Interim Pastor has not been following our Constitution...he continues to do things "his way") The Pastor asked the Congregation, "what do you want me to do?" A motion was made to "Dismiss the Pastor as our Interim Pastor". The motion was seconded. A non-voting guest at the Voters Meeting stood up an ordered the Council President to close the meeting. The same person who made the motion then stated..""the guest" is not a member of this congregation and has no right ordering the closing of this meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted November 22, 2011 at 02:08 PM Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 at 02:08 PM A non-voting guest at the Voters Meeting stood up an ordered the Council President to close the meeting. The same person who made the motion then stated..""the guest" is not a member of this congregation and has no right ordering the closing of this meeting.That person is correct as far as RONR is concerned (RONR p. 648) and the President should have immediately ordered this disorderly nonmember removed from the meeting (RONR p. 648-649). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted November 22, 2011 at 02:12 PM Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 at 02:12 PM In our Congregations Constitution and By-laws we adopted many years ago to use "Roberts Rules".In a recent Voters Meeting...a Question and Answer session was held with the Interim Pastor. (The Interim Pastor has not been following our Constitution...he continues to do things "his way") The Pastor asked the Congregation, "what do you want me to do?" A motion was made to "Dismiss the Pastor as our Interim Pastor". The motion was seconded.A non-voting guest at the Voters Meeting stood up an ordered the Council President to close the meeting.The same person who made the motion then stated..""the guest" is not a member of this congregation and has no right ordering the closing of this meeting.Do you have a question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llexvold Posted November 24, 2011 at 03:15 AM Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 at 03:15 AM Trina....My Question is...."would this be called "out of order" or illegal? Was the motion asked correctly?Chris H...sadly, the president sides with the visitor and Pastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tctheatc Posted November 24, 2011 at 03:55 AM Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 at 03:55 AM Do your bylaws contain language that state dismissing the pastor must be voted on at a special meeting called for that purpose? (that's not unusual)If so, it may have been out of order, perhaps prompting the "guest's" outburst.The same person who made the motion then stated..""the guest" is not a member of this congregation and has no right ordering the closing of this meeting. well, yeah. and neither does a member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llexvold Posted November 25, 2011 at 02:08 PM Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 at 02:08 PM The Pastor in question is serving as the Vacancy Pastor.. He is not the "called" Pastor of the Congregation. Yes, the bylaws do contain such language regarding dismissing a Pastor at a special meeting of the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted November 25, 2011 at 03:03 PM Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 at 03:03 PM In our Congregations Constitution and By-laws we adopted many years ago to use "Roberts Rules".In a recent Voters Meeting...a Question and Answer session was held with the Interim Pastor. (The Interim Pastor has not been following our Constitution...he continues to do things "his way") The Pastor asked the Congregation, "what do you want me to do?" A motion was made to "Dismiss the Pastor as our Interim Pastor". The motion was seconded.A non-voting guest at the Voters Meeting stood up an ordered the Council President to close the meeting.The same person who made the motion then stated..""the guest" is not a member of this congregation and has no right ordering the closing of this meeting.The Pastor in question is serving as the Vacancy Pastor.. He is not the "called" Pastor of the Congregation. Yes, the bylaws do contain such language regarding dismissing a Pastor at a special meeting of the body.Trina....My Question is...."would this be called "out of order" or illegal? Was the motion asked correctly?...That depends on what you mean by 'this'...The actions of the guest (non-member) were certainly out of order, and if the presiding officer actually 'closed' (adjourned ?) the meeting in response to the guest's comments, that was improper, and the assembly should not have accepted the improper adjournment. The presiding officer has no authority to unilaterally end a meeting under these circumstances. As tctheatc pointed out, even a member cannot order a meeting to be closed (never mind a non-member trying to do so), and that holds true even if the member is the presiding officer. Adjourning a meeting is a decision of the assembly.As for whether the motion "Dismiss the Pastor as our Interim Pastor" was out of order, that depends. You say your bylaws contain language regarding dismissing a Pastor at a special meeting -- do the bylaws say such dismissal can only be done via a special meeting? Was this meeting a special meeting of the body? If so, how was the business of the meeting described in the call to the meeting? Do your bylaws (or other rules) say anything about the hiring and firing of the 'Vacancy Pastor' (since you are making a distinction, in pointing out that this person is not actually called the 'Pastor')? Was a point of order actually made about the motion (i.e. did a member point out a specific problem with the motion), and did the presiding officer rule on such a point of order? Since you describe a 'Question and Answer' session, I wonder if someone made the claim that no motions could be made at this meeting... if so, this is a can of worms that gets reopened fairly often on this forum.You ask whether the motion was 'asked correctly'... a motion does not have to be perfectly stated in order to be a valid motion, so long as it is clearly understood by the members. If the language of the motion has some defects, or if the meaning is uncertain, it is one of the duties of the presiding officer to help the motion maker clarify his/her motion. So, if it was technically incorrect to refer to the interim pastor as 'the Pastor', the motion might have been rephrased to "dismiss Mr. Jones as Interim Pastor" or "dismiss Mr. Jones as Vacancy Pastor" or "dismiss our Interim Pastor"... you get the idea. Getting up and leaving (adjourning the meeting) because a motion is no perfectly worded makes no sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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