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Membership application voted on twice with two motion numbers


Guest Avalon

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can a club BoD that votes new members into the club vote a new member in, then the next month vote the same member application as not approved with out some motion to disallow the first vote of approval?

The first vote had a motion number (20090511-09) and the second vote had a new number (20090617-13)

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can a club BoD that votes new members into the club vote a new member in, then the next month vote the same member application as not approved with out some motion to disallow the first vote of approval?

The first vote had a motion number (20090511-09) and the second vote had a new number (20090617-13)

Why was it voted on again?

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After the first vote, the person was in the news with alligations against them. The first vote was 8-1 in favor. The second vote, after discussion on the next months conference call was 3 in favor, 4 against, and 5 abstained. Meetings are conf. calls each month with poll voting through an on line site(yahoo groups) with one annual in person meeting. Procedure is for the person voted on to be notified after polls close with results, but I can not confirm this for this vote. These motions were hid from the membership and I found them as part of my job with standing rules manual revisions.

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can a club BoD that votes new members into the club vote a new member in, then the next month vote the same member application as not approved with out some motion to disallow the first vote of approval?

No, this is not proper. Additionally, if the member has already been informed of his admission into the society, it's not proper to have a "motion to disallow the first vote of approval" (which RONR would call a motion to Rescind - much less wordy) either. Removing the member would require disciplinary procedures.

After the first vote, the person was in the news with alligations against them. The first vote was 8-1 in favor. The second vote, after discussion on the next months conference call was 3 in favor, 4 against, and 5 abstained. Meetings are conf. calls each month with poll voting through an on line site(yahoo groups) with one annual in person meeting. Procedure is for the person voted on to be notified after polls close with results, but I can not confirm this for this vote. These motions were hid from the membership and I found them as part of my job with standing rules manual revisions.

If the society feels that the allegations against the person render him unfit for membership, the appropriate course of action is to use formal disciplinary procedures. Check your Bylaws for details, or see Section 63 of RONR if your Bylaws are silent. You can't just "undo" the acceptance of his application if the member was notified that he was admitted to the society. The second vote is null and void as it violates the rights of an individual member.

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What if the member was not notified of the results of the first vote. Then the BoD had discussion in the next conf.call about the member application in exec. session. Then there is no recorded notes from discussion, only a on line vote with a new motion number.

Is this wrong? Is there a course of action that can be taken?

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Assuming the member had been notified prior to the second vote, would a Point of Order (ruled well taken and the chair's decision sustained if appealed) be required here to rule the second vote null and void?

Nothing happens automatically, if that's what you're asking. The situation will have to be resolved by a ruling of the chair and subsequent appeal (if any), and the ruling might be made on the chair's own initiative or in response to a Point of Order.

What if the member was not notified of the results of the first vote.

Well, that changes everything. It also means the society should work on its communication in the future - since the votes were over a month apart, it seems odd that the person had not yet been informed of his acceptance into the society.

Then the BoD had discussion in the next conf.call about the member application in exec. session. Then there is no recorded notes from discussion, only a on line vote with a new motion number.

Is this wrong?

There are several things wrong with this. First of all, this should have been handled by a motion to Rescind the original motion. It's not proper to simply vote on it again. Secondly, minutes should still be kept for meetings held in executive session - although minutes don't include "notes from discussion." They do, however, include the complete language of the motion (not just an identifying number) and since the vote was counted, the count should be included as well.

Of course, at this point I should probably point out that unless conference calls and online voting is authorized in your Bylaws, it is not valid and any action taken by such means is null and void. So if they aren't authorized, there's not much point in worrying about the second vote since the first vote wasn't valid either.

Is there a course of action that can be taken?

Assuming your Bylaws authorize conference calls and online voting, then a Point of Order may be raised that the second motion conflicts with a motion previously adopted and still in force and that the second motion is therefore null and void. Also, some effort should be made to reconstruct the minutes of that meeting, since it seems they were not taken.

Like Mr. Foulkes, however, I'm curious as to whether the "20090511" and the "20090617" are references to dates. If this really all happened two and a half years ago, maybe you should contact the person first and see if he even still wants to be a member. :)

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Yes, this happened on the dates of the motion numbers. This person did re-apply in 2011, and was denied. Now there is another re-apply that will be voted on next month for the same person.

Also, the two motions were omitted by the RS from the motion list that is published each month to the club's member only web site and in our archives. I found it in a doc that we have every year generated by the online vote poll. We save the doc as "voting proof" and it list the motion number, description of the motion, and the vote counts.

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Yes, this happened on the dates of the motion numbers. This person did re-apply in 2011, and was denied. Now there is another re-apply that will be voted on next month for the same person.

Well... this is problematic. It seems that you've been continually voting on something which was decided back in May of 2009. It seems to me that the subsequent denials are null and void unless one of them was made in the form of a motion to Rescind or if, despite being made in the improper form, it achieved the vote required for a motion to Rescind (2/3 vote, vote of a majority of the entire membership, or majority vote with previous notice).

Has this individual still not been informed of his acceptance to membership back in May of 2009?

Also, the two motions were omitted by the RS from the motion list that is published each month to the club's member only web site and in our archives. I found it in a doc that we have every year generated by the online vote poll. We save the doc as "voting proof" and it list the motion number, description of the motion, and the vote counts.

Well, as far as RONR is concerned, the important thing is that it is recorded in the minutes. What the society does with extra records like motion lists and web sites is up to the society and its rules.

You've also somewhat dodged the issue of whether your Bylaws authorize conference calls and online voting, so I'll ask you straight this time - do they authorize these things? Because if not, most of the discussion in this thread is moot.

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Sorry, yes the by laws do authorize conference calls and online voting.

And no, the person was not told of the first vote. No one was told of the first vote outside the BoD who voted. The record of the first and second vote were hid from the membership.

This is truly bizarre, but go with what I said in the first paragraph of my last post, then.

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Ok, thanks. Yes this is bizarre, the operation of this club is bizarre with the way they do things. Our standing rules are a document called 'Policy, Procedure and Guidelines manual". When they want to they say "They are just guidelines" and bend them like they want. It makes my head hurt.

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