Vote by Ballot to amend Constitution/Bylaws

[Guest Mary Whigham]

Our Bylaws state: Article VI Amendments - The Constitution and ByLaws of this club may be amended at any regular or special meeting of the club by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the members present, provided due notice of such amendment shall have been drawn up in writing at a previous meeting and communicated to all active members.

Our procedure is to present the amendment in writing at meeting #1, promptly mail the proposed bylaw amendment to all members and take the vote at meeting #2. Given that many members are reluctant to let their true feelings be known and referencing Roberts Rules, paragraph 45, p. 398, upon making the motion on the amendment at meeting #1, can I ask for a vote by ballot to be "counted" at meeting #2 (I am assuming my request for a ballot response is approved by a majority at meeting #1)...thanks, Mary

[Trina]

Just make a motion to conduct the vote by ballot (make the motion at meeting #2, before the voting on the amendment actually starts). Majority vote required.

I'm not sure what version of Roberts you're quoting, but it doesn't appear to be the current version (RONR 11th edition). If that's from the version that's online (in the public domain), be aware that that edition is almost 100 years old.

Why are you thinking of making the request for vote by ballot at meeting #1, to be 'counted' at the next meeting? Are you assuming that people would actually vote prior to meeting #2 somehow? What about debate on the amendment (and possible amendment of the amendment, which might occur during debate)? Not to mention, you must follow what it says in your bylaws regarding the amendment process.

[Guest Mary Whigham]

Quoting from 10th edition (gold cover)....agree that 2nd meeting important for discussion/debate...and wondered how to get it to a secret ballot as some of our ladies are reluctant to let their feelings be known even after discussion...also without amending our bylaws to allow for "absentee" balloting...I know some organizations are going to that given the difficulty to get folks to a meeting and forgoing the debate process...better than 50% of our members do not attend the once a month general meetings as they work and the meetings are scheduled during the work day (yes, we need to do something about that)...There has to be a way to open up that amendment process to those that can't attend a formal meeting...any suggestions?

[Trina]

Quoting from 10th edition (gold cover)....

The reference to 'paragraph 45' confused me (and still does ). Page 412 in the 11th edition contains pretty much the same information you reference from p. 398 in the 10th.

agree that 2nd meeting important for discussion/debate...and wondered how to get it to a secret ballot as some of our ladies are reluctant to let their feelings be known even after discussion

As described earlier, just make a motion, while the amendment is pending (that might be while the discussion is going on, or just prior to voting) to conduct the vote by secret ballot.

...also without amending our bylaws to allow for "absentee" balloting...I know some organizations are going to that given the difficulty to get folks to a meeting and forgoing the debate process...better than 50% of our members do not attend the once a month general meetings as they work and the meetings are scheduled during the work day (yes, we need to do something about that)...There has to be a way to open up that amendment process to those that can't attend a formal meeting...any suggestions?

If that means you get close to 50% attendance at monthly general meetings, that's actually a lot better than many organizations can hope for. Can't your group schedule at least some meetings (especially meetings that consider important business such as bylaws amendments) for a time that's more convenient for the working members?

[Gary Novosielski]

The reference to 'paragraph 45' confused me (and still does ). Page 412 in the 11th edition contains pretty much the same information you reference from p. 398 in the 10th.

I believe Mary was referring to section 45, not paragraph 45 ( i.e., §45 not ¶45.)

[Josh Martin]

There has to be a way to open up that amendment process to those that can't attend a formal meeting...any suggestions?

It's possible to establish a "polling place" monitored by tellers and open at prescribed times. I don't believe it's in order in this case to have the polls open before Meeting #2, however, as the motion is not properly pending until that time. You could, at Meeting #2, adopt a motion to take the vote by ballot and have the polls open at prescribed times, and then establish an adjourned meeting for several days later to count and announce the vote. If the goal is to open the process to members who cannot attend a meeting, this is really the only option short of amending the Bylaws.

[Guest Mary Whigham]

This motion to vote by ballot whenever would not be out of order since there is a motion on the table/pending?

[Trina]

This motion to vote by ballot whenever would not be out of order since there is a motion on the table/pending?

If the motion is made while a question is pending, it is an incidental motion , and is not debatable (the motion is definitely in order, although the motion maker shouldn't interrupt someone else who has the floor).

If the motion is made while nothing is pending, it's a main motion, and is debatable. This can be useful if you are trying to explain to the assembly why they might wish to vote by ballot.