Motion called to question & discussion closed without 2/3 vote

[Guest Jeff Long]

Is this motion valid. We were in discussion, the question was called during discussion, discussion was closed without a vote, and the motion carried 4-3.

[jstackpo]

The 4-3 adopted motion is or was validly adopted.

The breach of the rules -- failing to call for a 2/3 vote to close debate -- should have been pointed out at the time, via a point of order; any time later is too late. Since no point was raised, the presumption is that the members present were willing to get to the vote anyway.

Next time do it right!

[David A Foulkes]

And everyone should probably bone up on the Previous Question (Section 16, p. 197, RONR 11th Ed.) for details on how to properly handle the "calling of the question" for next time.

[Guest Jeff Long]

Thanks, I am new to the board and played it cautious on this vote. Next time I will know better.

[jstackpo]

Don't play it cautious, play it right -- after you find out what is right from...

RONRIB:

"Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief", Updated Second Edition (Da Capo Press, Perseus Books Group, 2011). It is a splendid summary of all the rules you will really need in all but the most exceptional situations. And only $7.50! You can read it in an evening.

[Tim Wynn]

Thanks, I am new to the board and played it cautious on this vote. Next time I will know better.

Instead of playing it "cautious," get information on the matter. Raise a Parliamentary Inquiry, in which you ask the chair the proper procedure for closing debate. It is the chair's duty to answer such inquiries, when they may help the members to understand the current parliamentary situation. See RONR (11th ed.), p. 293-294.

[Trina]

Instead of playing it "cautious," get information on the matter. Raise a Parliamentary Inquiry, in which you ask the chair the proper procedure for closing debate. It is the chair's duty to answer such inquiries, when they may help the members to understand the current parliamentary situation. See RONR (11th ed.), p. 293-294.

Do you think a Parliamentary Inquiry is the best approach, in a case where the chair knows next to nothing about parliamentary procedure? This may not be the case in Mr. Long's situation. However, I was at a recent AGM where debate on a motion got very disorganized and lengthy, and a couple of members started calling, "question!" just to get the misery to stop. However, quite a few other members were not done with discussion, and the debate simply continued on (the question callers were a bit disgruntled, but didn't persist with their efforts), and we eventually stumbled through to a reasonable conclusion and a vote. I wondered at the time what the best approach would have been, if those who attempted to 'call the question' had insisted on their case.

[Guest Edgar]

I was at a recent AGM where debate on a motion got very disorganized and lengthy, and a couple of members started calling, "question!" just to get the misery to stop. . . . I wondered at the time what the best approach would have been, if those who attempted to 'call the question' had insisted on their case.

I would think that you, as, presumably, the most parliamentarily knowledgeable person in the room, would have calmly explained the proper procedure.

[Trina]

I would think that you, as, presumably, the most parliamentarily knowledgeable person in the room, would have calmly explained the proper procedure.

Yes, I would have tried to get a word in edgewise, had it come to that. I was just returning to this thread with the thought of deleting my earlier post/question, as it isn't really a question about proper application of RONR; it's more concerned with the disorder that comes from not following procedure in a larger (~30 people at an AGM) meeting, with an inexperienced chair presiding. Fortunately it worked out fairly, in the end, despite the confusion along the way.

[Tim Wynn]

Yes, I would have tried to get a word in edgewise, had it come to that. I was just returning to this thread with the thought of deleting my earlier post/question, as it isn't really a question about proper application of RONR; it's more concerned with the disorder that comes from not following procedure in a larger (~30 people at an AGM) meeting, with an inexperienced chair presiding. Fortunately it worked out fairly, in the end, despite the confusion along the way.

It's difficult, and certainly not ideal, to give a training seminar on basic parliamentary procedure in the middle of a meeting. :-)

I would advise you to take notes, draft up a report of what happened, detailed with solutions for the parliamentary problems, and get yourself appointed as parliamentarian, or at least schedule a time when you can teach this group.