Guest Gary Posted September 15, 2012 at 02:00 PM Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 at 02:00 PM Our 5/12 Annual Membership Meeting minutes include: "A motion was made to have the by laws committee look into the by laws for the next annual meeting with advice from a legal source on the by laws, seconded, and approved by a 47-1 vote". 7 Club members have been appointed to this Committee by the Commodore. If a Club member provides this Committee documented proof about Bylaw infractions does RRON require it to "consider, investigate or to take actions" (page 489 lines 20-25 and "report its findings or recommendations" (page 490 lines 10-15)? One example is the Board of Directors recently finding a member quilty of complaints against him without the due process clearly defined in our Club Bylaws. Is the Bylaw Committee responsible and or obligated to make "report its findings" on this Bylaw infraction? Thanks for your opinions and advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted September 15, 2012 at 02:11 PM Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 at 02:11 PM The committee has only the duty given it by the assembly or the bylaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy N. Posted September 15, 2012 at 07:42 PM Report Share Posted September 15, 2012 at 07:42 PM It may be tangential, but why do you bother holding "5/12 Annual Membership Meeting"? 5/12 isn't even half, so it might not count, unless your meetings are cumulative; but couldn't your membership at least try to hold the whole meeting at once, and only if necessary, such as running out of time, adjourn to another time at which you'll finish up the remaining 7/12?1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted September 16, 2012 at 12:54 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 12:54 PM Yup, that is pretty tangential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:03 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:03 PM Yup, that is pretty tangentialI'm afraid it's much less than tangential."Inane" comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:10 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:10 PM I'm afraid it's much less than tangential."Inane" comes to mind.Insert an "s", and I'll concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:21 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:21 PM Thank you Mr Wynn. Nancy 5/12 is the annual meeting date more accurately 5/20/12. Sorry. Do you agree that this Bylaw committee is guided by page 501 lines 7-11 and a "substantive Committee" that "should give members of the society an opportuity to appear before it and present their views"? If the Bylaw Committee report at the next annual meeting includes reccomendations for Bylaw amendments wouldn't those reccomendations have to be supported by investigating and reporting the facts involved? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:38 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:38 PM Thank you Mr Wynn. Nancy 5/12 is the annual meeting date more accurately 5/20/12. Sorry. Do you agree that this Bylaw committee is guided by page 501 lines 7-11 and a "substantive Committee" that "should give members of the society an opportuity to appear before it and present their views"? I agree that what is said on page 501, lines 7-11 applies to a committee making recommendations for bylaw amendments, though that text does not include the term "substantive committee." However, the committee is not obliged to hold a hearing, and in many cases a hearing may not be warranted. If the Bylaw Committee report at the next annual meeting includes reccomendations for Bylaw amendments wouldn't those reccomendations have to be supported by investigating and reporting the facts involved? Thanks again.No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:44 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 01:44 PM If the Bylaw Committee report at the next annual meeting includes reccomendations for Bylaw amendments wouldn't those reccomendations have to be supported by investigating and reporting the facts involved?Have to be? Why?Ought to be? It would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trina Posted September 16, 2012 at 02:02 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 02:02 PM ...If the Bylaw Committee report at the next annual meeting includes reccomendations for Bylaw amendments wouldn't those reccomendations have to be supported by investigating and reporting the facts involved? Thanks again.Have to be? Why?Ought to be? It would be nice.Edgar, do you think a bylaws committee has the authority to investigate complaints about bylaws violations? Remember Guest_Gary's specific question in the original post:"One example is the Board of Directors recently finding a member quilty of complaints against him without the due process clearly defined in our Club Bylaws. Is the Bylaw Committee responsible and or obligated to make "report its findings" on this Bylaw infraction?"I don't see how a bylaws committee as described in RONR would have such authority. Nor do I see how the (admittedly vague) language quoted by Gary ("A motion was made to have the by laws committee look into the by laws for the next annual meeting with advice from a legal source on the by laws") gives the committee authority to investigate violations of the current bylaws, even if it should wish to do so. Perhaps one could argue that such investigation may be useful to the committee in coming up with recommendations for bylaws changes; however, I'm not sure that actually gives the committee license to investigate a complaint in any formal or official way. Guest_Gary mentioned that "a Club member provides this Committee documented proof about Bylaw infractions" -- that sure sounds as though the club member is expecting some sort of official action to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted September 16, 2012 at 02:16 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 02:16 PM Edgar, do you think a bylaws committee has the authority to investigate complaints about bylaws violations? Remember Guest_Gary's specific question in the original post: . . .Well, I confess I only replied to the latest post, not the original question, so the authority (or lack thereof) to "investigate complaints" didn't occur to me and I only thought it would be reasonable for a committee's report to be "supported by investigating and reporting the facts involved".But I appreciate the opportunity to clarify this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMargaret Posted September 16, 2012 at 03:37 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 03:37 PM Our 5/12 Annual Membership Meeting minutes include: "A motion was made to have the by laws committee look into the by laws for the next annual meeting with advice from a legal source on the by laws, seconded, and approved by a 47-1 vote". 7 Club members have been appointed to this Committee by the Commodore. If a Club member provides this Committee documented proof about Bylaw infractions does RRON require it to "consider, investigate or to take actions" (page 489 lines 20-25 and "report its findings or recommendations" (page 490 lines 10-15)? One example is the Board of Directors recently finding a member quilty of complaints against him without the due process clearly defined in our Club Bylaws. Is the Bylaw Committee responsible and or obligated to make "report its findings" on this Bylaw infraction? Thanks for your opinions and advice.What you may have there is a badly worded motion. I would be very curious as to the discussion before the motion that was made, and whether or not people thought they were forming a committee to look into bylaws, with legal advice, DUE TO bylaw infractions. I would be very tempted, were I a committee member, to go back to the assembly and ask for clarification as to what it is they wish the committee to do, worded as a formal motion. If they're going to be investigating infractions, they need something more than the motion they have - in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted September 16, 2012 at 03:45 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 03:45 PM I would be very curious as to the discussion before the motion that was made . . .If RONR were being followed, there would have been no discussion of the subject in the meeting before the motion was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMargaret Posted September 16, 2012 at 03:52 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 03:52 PM If RONR were being followed, there would have been no discussion of the subject in the meeting before the motion was made.Big if. Very valid point, though, so amend my statement to a discussion after the motion was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Posted September 16, 2012 at 04:23 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 04:23 PM Accurate Correction Mr Wynn. Page 501 line 7 reads "substantive recomendations". Allow me to another opportunity clarify. I do not mean to suggest or imply that the Bylaw Committee has any authority or responsibility to hold a hearing and/or resolve complaints. The purpose of this discussion topic is to clarify if this Bylaw Commitee established by the membership (as I previously quoted from the annual meeting minutes) does have the authority and responsibility determine if the Bylaws have not been upheld, and potentially propose Bylaw amendments at the next Annual Meeting, which requires justification of the amendment (what took place) for logical and informed vote on the amendment (s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted September 16, 2012 at 04:41 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 04:41 PM Accurate Correction Mr Wynn. Page 501 line 7 reads "substantive recomendations". Allow me to another opportunity clarify. I do not mean to suggest or imply that the Bylaw Committee has any authority or responsibility to hold a hearing and/or resolve complaints. The purpose of this discussion topic is to clarify if this Bylaw Commitee established by the membership (as I previously quoted from the annual meeting minutes) does have the authority and responsibility determine if the Bylaws have not been upheld, and potentially propose Bylaw amendments at the next Annual Meeting, which requires justification of the amendment (what took place) for logical and informed vote on the amendment (s).It does not have the authority to determine, on behalf of the organization, the meaning of the bylaws or whether or not the bylaws have been violated, unless the assembly or some rule of the governing documents has given it such authority . . . which I doubt is the case.I suspect the committee does have the authority to make recommendations concerning the bylaws, including the recommending of amendments to the bylaws. Otherwise, I don't know what the committee's purpose is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gary Posted September 16, 2012 at 06:52 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 06:52 PM S Margaret it is a poorly written Motion as writen in the biased Secretaries proposed meeting minutes. The Annual Meeting agenda included a number of Bylaw amendments from the Board and regular members. One dealing with disiplanary matters passed with modifications from the membership. A motion was made and seconded for an amendment to confirm voting privilages, but it was challenged by a Board member for not being properly submitted. The Bylaw Article on amendments was read to confirm that the proposed amendment was in order. At that point a motion from the membership was made and approved for a Bylaw Committee. Another motion from the membership and aproved was to recommend that the Commodore appoint the 3 regular members that were involved with the Bylaw amendments submitted for the annual meeting agenda. The membership then asked those 3 members "what broke" as recorded in the Secretaries proposed meeting minutes, but it are to broad and complex to disucss at an already emotionaland challenging annual meeting. The 3 regular members reccomended by the membership later concluded that the Bylaw Committee should investigate "what broke"( which was extensive Bylaw infractions during the previous 2 years) and devlope amendments to prevent the problems from happening again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Wynn Posted September 16, 2012 at 07:04 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 07:04 PM S Margaret it is a poorly written Motion as writen in the biased Secretaries proposed meeting minutes. The secretary's bias should not affect the content of the draft minutes. He is obliged to record the exact wording of the motion as it was disposed of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted September 16, 2012 at 07:39 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 07:39 PM Accurate Correction Mr Wynn. Page 501 line 7 reads "substantive recomendations". Allow me to another opportunity clarify. I do not mean to suggest or imply that the Bylaw Committee has any authority or responsibility to hold a hearing and/or resolve complaints. The purpose of this discussion topic is to clarify if this Bylaw Commitee established by the membership (as I previously quoted from the annual meeting minutes) does have the authority and responsibility determine if the Bylaws have not been upheld, and potentially propose Bylaw amendments at the next Annual Meeting, which requires justification of the amendment (what took place) for logical and informed vote on the amendment (s).If you quoted the original motion accurately, I would find it hard to see how that stretched to investigating past infractions or taking any action with respect to them. This motion sounds very much like one that is quite common--to establish a committee to draft recommended amendments, if any, to the bylaws, and report them to the membership for possible adoption.The committee could certainly hold hearings if it decided they would be beneficial. But that would depend on what they thought of the current bylaws, after carefully studying them. If they saw no reason for amendment, or only some small and non-controversial amendments, they might not. If they saw some glaring holes that needed to be fixed, and several possible courses of action to fix them, then hearings might be beneficial. It is up to (a majority of) the committee to decide.But as phrased, the motion seems to authorize what is essentially a legislative function, more like a committee of the state assembly than, say, the state police or the courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted September 16, 2012 at 07:42 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 07:42 PM ...and I'm curious, if the vote was even close to 47-1, why anyone felt the need for the votes to be counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 16, 2012 at 08:05 PM Report Share Posted September 16, 2012 at 08:05 PM The vote for the Bylaw Commitee was 47 in favor and 1 opoossed by hand ballot. "A motion was made and seconded for an amendment to confirm voting privilages" refers to a Bylaw amendment proposed that is intended to confirm regular listed Club members voting priveladges.I will ask to attend Bylaw Committee meetings toXjHXW express my view about future Bylaw amendments (and hopefully gain support). I willl also file a complaint against the Board for finding a member quilty of complaints against him without the due process clearly defined in our Club Bylaws. Thanks everyone for this informative discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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