Vice president not willing to go on automatically as President.

[Guest Julie Hammons]

I am President of my organization. Our organization's by-laws state that our Vice-President automatically assumes office of President. She has personal issues that will not allow her to do so. She would like to stay on as Vice-President and go on as President the following year. I am willing to stay on for the year. We have nothing in our by-laws or constitution that deals with this issue. Our year is up and our annual meeting is in one week. My original thought was to open up both positions for nominations for both of us and any additional nominations from the floor. We would also post this information to our membership before our meeting. This would allow any member interested in either position to be nominated. One of my executive board members said our Vice-President must resign from her position. And she can be then nominated for the position. Please advice on the best way to deal with this issue. Thank you so much!

[Guest Edgar]

Our organization's by-laws state that our Vice-President automatically assumes office of President.

This usually occurs only when there's a mid-term vacancy in the office of president and, in that case, the vice-president has no choice. But this vacancy-filling provision doesn't usually apply when a president has completed a term.

Our year is up and our annual meeting is in one week.

Are you saying that there is usually no election for president and that your vice-president is, in effect, a president-elect?

If that's not the case, you can simply run for re-election as the president and the vice-president can run for re-election as vice-president.

But I get the feeling I'm missing something here.

[Gary Novosielski]

If I'm understanding correctly, the annual elections are in a week, your year is up, you are not seeking reëlection, and the VP wishes to run for president to succeed you. That's fine. And nobody needs to resign.

Or do you mean that you wish to remain president, and plan to resign one before your term is up, presuming you are reëlected? If that's the case, you run for president again, the VP runs for VP again and will assume the office of president in the event of a vacancy. That's fine too and again nobody needs to resign.

But in any case, someone else entirely could win election to either or both of those offices next week.

[Guest Randy]

what is the normal practice when a president steps down does the VP take the spot. In our club the Pres nominated someone bypassing the VP

[David A Foulkes]

what is the normal practice when a president steps down does the VP take the spot. In our club the Pres nominated someone bypassing the VP

In the land of RONR, if the President leaves office before the end of his term, the VP automatically becomes the President, and a vacancy is created in the VP's office. The exception to the rule is if the bylaws explicitly state a different process for filling a vacancy in the office of President specifically.

[Gary Novosielski]

what is the normal practice when a president steps down does the VP take the spot. In our club the Pres nominated someone bypassing the VP

The president does NOT get to nominate anybody, on the way out the door. The VP automatically becomes president for the unexpired remainder of the president's term. You would use your normal vacancy filling procedures to select a new vice president.

[Guest Julie Hammons]

Thank you for the responses. To clarify, our terms are up at the end of this week. Our by-laws state that the president becomes the past president, and the vice president becomes the president. The rest of the executive board members can be re-elected. The vice does not want to be president this year because of personal issues. She would like to stay in the vice position one more year. I am willing to be president one more year. There is nothing in our constitution or by-laws to address this situation. So what is the correct way to handle this? Do we open the election of these two positions to the membership and ask for nominations? Thanks.

[sMargaret]

Julie, to clarify some more, your bylaws state that no one can run for President? In order to get to be President, you have to serve as VP first? Has it never happened before that something happens to the VP, so that they can't become the President?

I would actually suggest changing the bylaws so that you don't have an immediate past president position and so that you elect both president and VP, but that isn't terribly helpful in the short term.

Do your bylaws state a term only, or do they give a term AND that your successor is elected?

[David A Foulkes]

Thank you for the responses. To clarify, our terms are up at the end of this week. Our by-laws state that the president becomes the past president, and the vice president becomes the president. The rest of the executive board members can be re-elected. The vice does not want to be president this year because of personal issues. She would like to stay in the vice position one more year. I am willing to be president one more year. There is nothing in our constitution or by-laws to address this situation. So what is the correct way to handle this? Do we open the election of these two positions to the membership and ask for nominations? Thanks.

Well, your bylaws supersede RONR, so you have to obey them. What they actually mean (i.e. the interpretation of them) is left to the society to address, and pages 588-591 (RONR 11) may offer some insights.

What you seem to be saying is that your term as president has come to an end and you can't do anything about that. You must progress to being past president, the vice president must progress to being president, and elections for any other offices will take place at this week's meeting. This is all according to your bylaws, and there you are. So if the VP doesn't want to progress to President, she will need to resign at some point in the process, and hope that she'll get re-elected as VP. At least, that's my guess.

So, what happens if there is no VP at the time the election meeting arrives? Would you elect a president anyway? elect a VP, have them move up to president, and then elect another VP? I know, this has never happened, right? Not yet.

[sMargaret]

What you seem to be saying is that your term as president has come to an end and you can't do anything about that. You must progress to being past president, the vice president must progress to being president, and elections for any other offices will take place at this week's meeting. This is all according to your bylaws, and there you are. So if the VP doesn't want to progress to President, she will need to resign at some point in the process, and hope that she'll get re-elected as VP. At least, that's my guess.

So, what happens if there is no VP at the time the election meeting arrives? Would you elect a president anyway? elect a VP, have them move up to president, and then elect another VP? I know, this has never happened, right? Not yet.

Would it be in the nature of a continuing breach of order if they actually held an election for President and Vice President at the meeting? They could say that hey, this has the potential to be really, really, confusing, so we're going to do it a different way in order to get the same results.

[Guest Guest]

Julie, to clarify some more, your bylaws state that no one can run for President? In order to get to be President, you have to serve as VP first? Has it never happened before that something happens to the VP, so that they can't become the President?

I would actually suggest changing the bylaws so that you don't have an immediate past president position and so that you elect both president and VP, but that isn't terribly helpful in the short term.

Do your bylaws state a term only, or do they give a term AND that your successor is elected?

The constitution reads "the executive committee shall be elected at the annual meeting and take office the following oct 1 and serve for a 1 year term. The vice pres. automatically assumes the office of pres. All other officers may be re-elected". I don't think this has ever come up before now.

[sMargaret]

How would this sound for a recommended agenda?

VP resigns at start of meeting - "As I do not have the time to devote to the position of President for the next year, and the person serving as VP automatically assumes the office of P, I submit my resignation as VP". Accept resignation.

Hold elections for all positions, during which current P runs for President and old VP runs for VP. As there is no VP, that office is not automatically assumed.

Depending on the wording of the bylaws, you may not have the same past President serving as you did before - as the current President is also the most immediate Past President.

Rewrite bylaws (possibly next meeting).

[Guest Guest]

How would this sound for a recommended agenda?

VP resigns at start of meeting - "As I do not have the time to devote to the position of President for the next year, and the person serving as VP automatically assumes the office of P, I submit my resignation as VP". Accept resignation.

Hold elections for all positions, during which current P runs for President and old VP runs for VP. As there is no VP, that office is not automatically assumed.

Depending on the wording of the bylaws, you may not have the same past President serving as you did before - as the current President is also the most immediate Past President.

Rewrite bylaws (possibly next meeting).

Thank you for the advice and time!. We have a board meeting tonight to discuss how to proceed at the annual meeting. I will present this as an option. We are considering a bylaw change. It didn't fly last year, but we are looking at changing the verbiage and hopefully have it pass this time. Thanks again.

[David A Foulkes]

Depending on the wording of the bylaws, you may not have the same past President serving as you did before - as the current President is also the most immediate Past President.

I dunno..... kind-a hard to be the Past President when you're still the President.

[sMargaret]

I dunno..... kind-a hard to be the Past President when you're still the President.

True, but does depend on the wording of the bylaws in question. If they're defining past President as "person who served the last term as President", then that makes it different than "most recent past president, not currently in office as President, and willing and able to serve".

[Guest John Raines]

VP resigns at start of meeting - "As I do not have the time to devote to the position of President for the next year, and the person serving as VP automatically assumes the office of P, I submit my resignation as VP". Accept resignation.

Hold elections for all positions, during which current P runs for President and old VP runs for VP. As there is no VP, that office is not automatically assumed.

I don't think you can have an election for President without previous notice; you are violating the rights of absent members who believe the VP will become P.

[George Mervosh]

I don't think you can have an election for President without previous notice; you are violating the rights of absent members who believe the VP will become P.

Like the phoenix rising from the ashes, John. Welcome back around

[Gary Novosielski]

How would this sound for a recommended agenda?

VP resigns at start of meeting - "As I do not have the time to devote to the position of President for the next year, and the person serving as VP automatically assumes the office of P, I submit my resignation as VP". Accept resignation.

Hold elections for all positions, during which current P runs for President and old VP runs for VP. As there is no VP, that office is not automatically assumed.

Depending on the wording of the bylaws, you may not have the same past President serving as you did before - as the current President is also the most immediate Past President.

Rewrite bylaws (possibly next meeting).

Rather than (or in addition to) rewriting the bylaws, it might be better to elect a VP who is willing to perform the duties of the office. Even with normal RONR rules in place, a person who is unwilling to step into the office of president is unfit to hold the office of VP

[Guest John Raines]

Like the phoenix rising from the ashes, John. Welcome back around

Thank you, George. Yes, sadly my life is lacking excitement these days so I am forced to turn to PP.

[George Mervosh]

Thank you, George. Yes, sadly my life is lacking excitement these days so I am forced to turn to PP.

RONR isn't exciting? Who knew? This forum will be a better place when the former John H. drops by more often.