Guest Paul Posted October 21, 2012 at 11:26 PM Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 at 11:26 PM Elections held in fall for our civic association.President & V.President both resigned.New officiers normally take over Jan 1st.As both major officiers resigned, do new oficiers go ahead and take office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR Posted October 21, 2012 at 11:27 PM Report Share Posted October 21, 2012 at 11:27 PM According to your bylaws, when do the terms of the President and Vice President begin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted October 22, 2012 at 12:46 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 at 12:46 AM The by-laws do not give a specific date/time.It has always been the 1st of the new yr.(something to change in the by-laws!)Since it does not say, and elections were held, now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted October 22, 2012 at 01:06 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 at 01:06 AM The by-laws do not give a specific date/time.It has always been the 1st of the new yr.(something to change in the by-laws!)Since it does not say, and elections were held, now what?Per RONR (p. 444), an election becomes final if the candidate is present and does not decline, or if absent but has previously consented to his candidacy, or if absent he does not decline upon being notified. "An officer-elect takes possession of his office immediately upon his election's becoming final, unless the bylaws or other rules specify a later time." (ll. 28-30, emphasis added)So, if your bylaws truly do not designate January 1st (or any date after the election takes place) as the date to take office, the persons elected are now President and Vice President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted October 22, 2012 at 01:09 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 at 01:09 AM So, if your bylaws truly do not designate January 1st as the date to take office, the persons elected are now President and Vice President.Although if that were the case here then wouldn't the resignations have been meaningless (since those people were out of office once the election was complete)? Conversely, if they hadn't "resigned", wouldn't everyone think they were still in office until January? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted October 22, 2012 at 01:23 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 at 01:23 AM Although if that were the case here then wouldn't the resignations have been meaningless (since those people were out of office once the election was complete)? Conversely, if they hadn't "resigned", wouldn't everyone think they were still in office until January?Well, we're a little short on facts here. I'm assuming (dangerous though that be) that the "old" P an VP resigned (shortly) before the election, although it might be the newly elected P and VP that have resigned since then. And I suppose the "custom" of officers taking office on Jan 1 might actually hold until a Point of Order is found well-taken with respect to the conflict with the rule in RONR. I would have been better to leave off at the end of the citation, and let Guest_Paul return the volley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR Posted October 22, 2012 at 01:34 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 at 01:34 AM …do new oficiers go ahead and take office?This indicates to me that the "old" officers resigned during the period when Paul's organization has customarily allowed them to remain. However, this custom is in violation of the rules and can be dispatched by a Point of Order. So at the next meeting, elect a chairman pro tem, raise the point, and recognize that the officers elected this fall actually are in office now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Posted October 22, 2012 at 10:40 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 at 10:40 AM It was announced before the voting that these officiers resigned. They proceeded with the voting.If it helps, the bylaws do state they will adhere to Roberts' Rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David A Foulkes Posted October 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM It was announced before the voting that these officiers resigned. They proceeded with the voting.If it helps, the bylaws do state they will adhere to Roberts' Rules."Custom" holds a place in parliamentary practice. If you've "always done it that way" (officers taking office on Jan 1), to the point of it almost being as though it was an actual rule written down somewhere, then you should follow that practice. However, when a custom comes in conflict with an established rule, either in the bylaws or parliamentary authority or whatever, and a Point of Order is raised regarding that conflict, the custom "falls to the ground" and the actual rule should then be followed. (RONR 11, p. 19)So, the question is: Has this practice of newly-elected officers not taking office until the first of the year been going on for so long now as though to establish a custom? Your group will need to decide that. If yes, then at the next meeting someone should raise a Point of Order that this custom (which has no written support) conflicts with the rule in RONR (p. 444) and that officers take their office upon the finality of the election. If it's not decided that this has been the "custom", then the rule would simply prevail, and you have your Pres and V Pres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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