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I have a question about the Minutes which seems a bit odd. 

 

Say I have an issue with a proposed set of Minutes.  What if I claim that a motion was incorrectly recorded.  I can offer a correction, but what if the majority of members disagree with me.  Thus, I cannot accept approval of the Minutes if I honestly believe that the Minutes are not accurate.  How would the final "approval" of the Minutes be acceptable if a small group of members back me up and we do not agree with the Minutes as they are presented? 

 

I ask this because RONR states that no vote is supposed to occur on the actual approval of the Minutes.  This seems to be a situation where "majority rules" and unanimous consent will not take place.  The majority wishes the Minutes to be approved as they are, but a majority disagrees (and let's assume that the 'minority' makes up more than 1/3 of the membership.)

 

What would happen to ensure the Minutes are actually approved?

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I have a question about the Minutes which seems a bit odd. 

 

Say I have an issue with a proposed set of Minutes.  What if I claim that a motion was incorrectly recorded.  I can offer a correction, but what if the majority of members disagree with me.  Thus, I cannot accept approval of the Minutes if I honestly believe that the Minutes are not accurate.  How would the final "approval" of the Minutes be acceptable if a small group of members back me up and we do not agree with the Minutes as they are presented? 

 

I ask this because RONR states that no vote is supposed to occur on the actual approval of the Minutes.  This seems to be a situation where "majority rules" and unanimous consent will not take place.  The majority wishes the Minutes to be approved as they are, but a majority disagrees (and let's assume that the 'minority' makes up more than 1/3 of the membership.)

 

What would happen to ensure the Minutes are actually approved?

 

The opportunity for members to voice their disagreement is during the process of correction. While corrections are usually handled by unanimous consent, if there is disagremeent, they are debatable, amendable, and require a majority vote for adoption. As you say, this is a situation where majority rules.

 

If the correction is defeated, then that's that. The chair still declares the minutes approved after all corrections are handled. There is no vote on the final approval of the minutes.

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I have a question about the Minutes which seems a bit odd. 

 

Say I have an issue with a proposed set of Minutes.  What if I claim that a motion was incorrectly recorded.  I can offer a correction, but what if the majority of members disagree with me.  Thus, I cannot accept approval of the Minutes if I honestly believe that the Minutes are not accurate.  How would the final "approval" of the Minutes be acceptable if a small group of members back me up and we do not agree with the Minutes as they are presented? 

 

I ask this because RONR states that no vote is supposed to occur on the actual approval of the Minutes.  This seems to be a situation where "majority rules" and unanimous consent will not take place.  The majority wishes the Minutes to be approved as they are, but a majority disagrees (and let's assume that the 'minority' makes up more than 1/3 of the membership.)

 

What would happen to ensure the Minutes are actually approved?

That question (and issue) is not odd at all. In fact, it seems to be somewhat common in several organizations I participate in. For important, critical or potentially risky (if misstated) motions, I would submit them as a resolution, in writing - as well as (right there at the meeting when the "resolution" is approved) a written certification of the resolution, signed by the Secretary of the organization and the Board Chair as well. What if a motion (as you believed) was to authorize Rev Ed to commit to spending $3,000 of the organization's funds (and be reimbursed) to have a Holiday Party  for the deserving orphans in the community and nice presents for them all, for example. You go out and spend the money, have the party -- then the motion was recorded by the secretary as authorizing Rev Ed to "investigate" doing this - and the majority believe the Secretary's version. "Rev Ed" is then out the $3,000! Get it IN WRITING and SIGNED on the spot.

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Guest Edgar
What if I claim that a motion was incorrectly recorded.  I can offer a correction, but what if the majority of members disagree with me. 

 

I'd say that [a] you're mistaken, you're not persuasive enough, or [c], a majority of members want to deliberately falsify the minutes. Which, to you, seems most likely?

 

In the end, what "happened" is what a majority of the members say happened. Maybe you should start recording the meetings?

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Thanks everyone.  And yes, I do believe that sometimes the majority may - unintentionally - allow incorrect information into the Minutes because someone (i.e. one of their leaders) might allow the wrong information into the Minutes.  An example, what if the motion was to approve the expenditure to paint the clubhouse navy blue, but it comes out that the only paint available at the time was royal blue.  So it was painted royal blue and now the people who signed off want the motion to look slightly different.  Some people might agree out of ignorance - they remember the blue colour, but not the type of blue.  So they may accept it - or they might not think it is a 'big deal' ("Blue is blue after all.")

 

Thanks again.

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I am not a big fan of using a recording for a reference in preparing the minutes, although some find it very helpful. Put motions in writing and make sure the secretary and chair have the written motions. That reduces the probability of such errors and controversies.

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OK, so I hand a written copy of the motion to the presiding chair, and the clerk of the motion as I stated it. How does this ensure they don't editorialize the motion recorded in the minutes? Do I say as I make the motion, " I am giving written copies of the motion to the chair and clerk?" Then when the minutes are reviewed, the majority are ok with the changed wording on the motion. I seem to have no recourse?

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OK, so I hand a written copy of the motion to the presiding chair, and the clerk of the motion as I stated it. How does this ensure they don't editorialize the motion recorded in the minutes? Do I say as I make the motion, " I am giving written copies of the motion to the chair and clerk?" Then when the minutes are reviewed, the majority are ok with the changed wording on the motion. I seem to have no recourse?

 

The assumption was that the chair and the Secretary were simply not remembering the motion correctly, and therefore, a written copy of the motion would help. If your chair and Secretary are intentionally falsifying the minutes, you have a much bigger problem.

 

Unfortunately, if the majority is okay with this, it is correct that you have no parliamentary recourse. You could consult a lawyer and see what your legal options are.

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Well...  (and this may be assuming a bit much)  the chair is supposed to repeat (read in your case) the motion just before calling for the vote  -  p. 44  -  and what he says (read) then is supposed to be the exact words that the secretary puts in the minutes.

 

So insist that your motion be read one more time before the vote and raise a point of order if it isn't the same as your original written text (assuming, of course, that no amendments were adopted during the consideration of the motion).   And keep your copy as proof of their nefarious subsequent re-write of the motion in the minutes, if that happened.

 

So your recourse is to be sure to close that barn door before the horse gets out.  (Or cow, depending.)

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