Jason H Posted October 8, 2013 at 05:31 AM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 05:31 AM Our association has an "interesting" situation. We follow RONR and our bylaws have very basic requirements for joining our association. A member of the community (who does meet the requirements for membership) has had some "issues" and would likely be considered "less than ideal" with respect to being a "fine upstanding community member." At one of our meetings he was disruptive, and sternly warned that his behavior would not be tolerated. He has been warned as a result of him picking through the trash/dumpster on the association property. And, recently he was apparently very intoxicated at one of our public events and accused of speaking to some women in an entirely improper and disrespectful manner. To further complicate issues, the president of our association alleges that this man stole money from his business. That said, the man has submitted a request for membership to our association along with his membership dues. At our association board meeting tonight, a motion was made to return this man's dues along with a letter stating that his membership would be denied based on his recent and past behavior in our community. The motion was seconded and carried and the secretary was instructed to prepare the letter. It's my understanding that this action is completely out of order. I certainly am no fan of this member of our community, but to ban him not only seems to be a blatant violation of process, but it opens up the door for an unbelievable opportunity for abuse by our board. It would seem that we could "dig up" (or fabricate?) unflattering information about people and use these allegations to selectively allow or ban them from joining the association. If we allow this sort of prejudice to exist, who exactly decides what is unacceptable behavior? If one receives lots of speeding tickets, should we ban them? What if someone was in prison? How about a DUI arrest? While I'm no lawyer, I feel this man has a right to join our association. He meets the criteria set forth in our bylaws. Robert's Rules has methods for dealing with members who behave improperly. There is a process for dealing with unacceptable behavior in our association, and we have laws to deal with unacceptable behavior "outside" of our association. Furthermore, I'm concerned that denying this man his right to join could open up our association to legal action... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted October 8, 2013 at 07:54 AM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 07:54 AM (I'm having trouble with the software, so I'm going to have to improvise some.) [Jason H said:] ... At our association board meeting tonight, a motion was made to return this man's dues along with a letter stating that his membership would be denied based on his recent and past behavior in our community. The motion was seconded and carried and the secretary was instructed to prepare the letter. Just prepare it? It's my understanding that this action is completely out of order. I certainly am no fan of this member of our community, but to ban him not only seems to be a blatant violation of process, What process would it be in violation of? but it opens up the door for ... abuse by our board. It would seem that we could "dig up" (or fabricate?) unflattering information about people and use these allegations to selectively allow or ban them from joining the association. Why would you need reasons? Also -- I take it that your point here is not what the board, rather than what the full membership, can do, yes? If the membership has the authority to say who can and who cannot join the association, and if the membership has properly delegated this authority to the board, then you agree that the board can properly exercise this authority, yes? Do you think that the membership has the authority to decide who it membership shall be, or does it not have that authority? If we allow this sort of prejudice to exist, who exactly decides what is unacceptable behavior? Would not the decision rest with those who "sternly warned that his behavior would not be tolerated"? And why would you think it's "prejudice"? Wasn't he disruptive at a meeting (such that he has already been warned)? And digging in the trash? Didn't you mention allegations of drunkenness and speaking improperly to women ? [Etc., &c. traffic violations, serving time, being arrested for drinking or garbage-picking or being alleged by your president or cannibalism or other unpopular religious practices] ..., I feel this man has a right to join our association. He meets the criteria set forth in our bylaws. Jason, is this just your feeling, or do the bylaws say so? Does the Membership article (Article III in RONR 10th Ed.; "3" in later editions that might have caught up with maybe the XVIth -- er, 17th -- century) say something like, "Membership is open to everyone who meets the criteria," or have similar welcoming, brotherhood-redolent wording? Robert's Rules has methods for dealing with members who behave improperly. There is a process for dealing with unacceptable behavior in our association, and we have laws to deal with unacceptable behavior "outside" of our association. So you have ways of dealing with his unacceptable behavior when he's not a member, and you have ways of dealing with his unacceptable behavior when he is a member, but you're helpless when he's in a transitional state like Lex Luthor when he's coming out of the twilight zone or the bottle-city of Kandor in the Fortress of Solitude?* Furthermore, I'm concerned that denying this man his right to join could open up our association to legal action... You sure he has a right to join? __________ *Note to J.J., those are comic-book references not Doctor Who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 8, 2013 at 02:50 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 02:50 PM It's my understanding that this action is completely out of order. I certainly am no fan of this member of our community, but to ban him not only seems to be a blatant violation of process, but it opens up the door for an unbelievable opportunity for abuse by our board. It's up to your organization to interpret its own bylaws. See RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 588-591 for some Principles of Interpretation. The action may or may not have been proper, depending on what your bylaws say about the process for admitting new members. If we allow this sort of prejudice to exist, who exactly decides what is unacceptable behavior? If one receives lots of speeding tickets, should we ban them? What if someone was in prison? How about a DUI arrest? Your bylaws would define who (if anyone) decides who is admitted to membership. Whether you should deny membership to a particular person is not a parliamentary issue. While I'm no lawyer, I feel this man has a right to join our association. Your bylaws might simply provide that members who meet the criteria and pay their dues are admitted. Or it might authorize someone (the membership, the board, etc.) to approve or reject applicants. I have no idea. Check your bylaws. Furthermore, I'm concerned that denying this man his right to join could open up our association to legal action... That's a question for a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted October 8, 2013 at 03:43 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 03:43 PM Well, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that if you publicized the bahaviors that made you want to exclude him (and especially if you made some up), you would be more open to legal action than if you simply voted on his admission and a failed to get a majority. Then, the only reason he was not admitted is because the motion didn't pass. This is sometimes called the "it's-not-you-it's-me" breakup. But I think I'm hearing you say that your club does not customarily vote on the admission of new members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g40 Posted October 8, 2013 at 06:52 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 06:52 PM 1. If he was not a member, what was he doing at a membership meeting? 2. Since the behavior you describe was public, it hardly seems that something like this has been "fabricated". 3. For "legal" see a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason H Posted October 8, 2013 at 09:26 PM Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 09:26 PM I guess I should clarify our association's guidelines for becoming a member. One must only live within our geographical boundaries and be 18 years of age. The individual in question does meet theses requirements. (The same requirements that we have compelled our other members to fulfill.) There are no specific guidelines that outline who should NOT be accepted as a member, only the basic requirements to meet. And no other "applicant" has undergone any such scrutiny of character. Our association has no bylaws in place to allow for voting on acceptance of members; simply that membership is open to those who meet the basic criteria. Our general membership meetings are open to everyone in the community. They are public. His membership status is not transitional as he is not a member, and as per events currently set in motion, he will be denied his membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g40 Posted October 8, 2013 at 09:37 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 09:37 PM I have no idea whether this would help or not, but perhaps you could admit him to membership - but bar him/ban him from the meetings because of bad behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:01 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:01 PM I feel this man has a right to join our association. Your feelings notwithstanding, it's very doubtful that anyone has a right to join your association. The fact that you refer to a "request for membership" suggests it's not a right at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason H Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:13 PM Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:13 PM I have no idea whether this would help or not, but perhaps you could admit him to membership - but bar him/ban him from the meetings because of bad behavior. I felt like this was a pretty good option myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason H Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:19 PM Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:19 PM Your feelings notwithstanding, it's very doubtful that anyone has a right to join your association. The fact that you refer to a "request for membership" suggests it's not a right at all.My phrasing may have been misleading. Maybe it would have been more accurate to say he initiated the process to join. There are no "requests" to join. One need only provide some basic information and the submittal of dues. Now, from a legal aspect, I do not know the laws in our state (or Federal laws) regarding the denial of membership to a public organization. So, that would be an entirely different consideration. But my first interest, is to determine if "voting" to bar this man was acceptable within our bylaws and RONR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:23 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:23 PM Our association has no bylaws in place to allow for voting on acceptance of members; simply that membership is open to those who meet the basic criteria. Thank you. Based upon these additional facts, I agree that the board's motion to deny membership to this person was out of order and is null and void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:28 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:28 PM I have no idea whether this would help or not, but perhaps you could admit him to membership - but bar him/ban him from the meetings because of bad behavior. I felt like this was a pretty good option myself. I would imagine that doing so would be no less complicated and probably more so (procedurally) than expelling him from membership (or maybe the bylaws do make it more simple). Why not make him a member and then expel him? Or better yet, keep in mind that what happened yesterday is in the past, what happens today is in the present, and what happens tomorrow is in the future and just because something happened yesterday doesn't necessarily mean that it will happen again tomorrow. Why not give the guy a chance and if he acts up again give him the old heave-ho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:32 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:32 PM There are no "requests" to join. One need only provide some basic information and the submittal of dues. But my first interest, is to determine if "voting" to bar this man was acceptable within our bylaws and RONR. Haven't you answered your own question? (Putting "voting" in quotes suggest you suspect the process is flawed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:35 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 at 10:35 PM Why not make him a member and then expel him?Putting aside the (substantial) problem of expelling someone who has a (continuing) "right" to be a member, what's to keep him from joining again (other than coming up with the dues)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 9, 2013 at 12:00 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 at 12:00 AM Putting aside the (substantial) problem of expelling someone who has a (continuing) "right" to be a member, what's to keep him from joining again (other than coming up with the dues)? Nothing that I can see. It would seem the wisest course of action would be to amend the bylaws to have some body (perhaps the membership, if the society doesn't trust the board with that power) to approve applicants for membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason H Posted October 9, 2013 at 04:30 AM Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 at 04:30 AM I would imagine that doing so would be no less complicated and probably more so (procedurally) than expelling him from membership (or maybe the bylaws do make it more simple). Why not make him a member and then expel him? Or better yet, keep in mind that what happened yesterday is in the past, what happens today is in the present, and what happens tomorrow is in the future and just because something happened yesterday doesn't necessarily mean that it will happen again tomorrow. Why not give the guy a chance and if he acts up again give him the old heave-ho?I agree with these thoughts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason H Posted October 9, 2013 at 04:34 AM Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 at 04:34 AM Putting aside the (substantial) problem of expelling someone who has a (continuing) "right" to be a member, what's to keep him from joining again (other than coming up with the dues)?Excellent point. Perhaps a useful additional criteria for membership eligibility would be that one has not been previously expelled from the membership. Thank you for highlighting this possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason H Posted October 9, 2013 at 04:35 AM Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 at 04:35 AM Thank you. Based upon these additional facts, I agree that the board's motion to deny membership to this person was out of order and is null and void.Understood. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted October 9, 2013 at 04:57 AM Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 at 04:57 AM Our association has an "interesting" situation. We follow RONR and our bylaws have very basic requirements for joining our association. A member of the community (who does meet the requirements for membership) has had some "issues" and would likely be considered "less than ideal" with respect to being a "fine upstanding community member." At one of our meetings he was disruptive, and sternly warned that his behavior would not be tolerated. He has been warned as a result of him picking through the trash/dumpster on the association property. And, recently he was apparently very intoxicated at one of our public events and accused of speaking to some women in an entirely improper and disrespectful manner. To further complicate issues, the president of our association alleges that this man stole money from his business. First, I agree with Josh that the board has no right to prevent this member from joining. I would suggest that he be admitted, and then expelled, for these actions, if proven. The expulsion might possibly include a ban on rejoining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.